Victoria, Australia: FYI-Far reaching ramifications of the criminal indictment of the GB

by AndersonsInfo 67 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    This is becoming frustrating. Well-meaning posts can raise people's hopes and then they are dashed. We can be cautiously optimistic. Jurisdiction in common law countries is the basic bedrock of law. Jurisdiction stems from fedual tenures. Land is crucial. In absence of land, modern law allows a person to do business in a place by the sheer volume of business for civil liability. The GB is not a war criminal in a land considered deranged by the rest of the planet. Idi Amin they are not.

    Without opining about Australian law, chances are this case will fail. It is unclear to me what its goal is. I can see a court order demanding compliance with the law. The Witnesses will refuse. Australia comes out of the same tradition as England and the United States. European countries, such as France, and quasiEuropean countries, such as Russia, acknowledge that religion needs some restraints. Australia wilh have a high tolerance for respecting religions.

    Most of the problem stems from the inevitable problem of lay people reading court filings and only understanding the immediate content. I used to be the chief offender. Words seem to be words. The concepts appear simple. There are many nuances in real life. In the U.S., corporate officials are very rarely jailed for corporate crimes. Fines on the corporation are the more likely remedy. If the plaintiff can have the WT assets in Australia fined, it will be a major step.Children stalked and attacked by pedophiles is an extremely compelling issue. Society has an overriding issue in protecting children, one that may trump Freedom of Religion claims, which are not absolute. Warren Jeffs is presently learning the limits of First Amendment has a shield.

    The WT's corporate structures are not an accident. Every availables step will be taken to shield the WT from liability. Andrew Jackson had an aggressive policy of genocide against Native Americans. He blantantly broke treaties. The Supreme Court issued a direct order to him to comply iwth the treaties, legal obligations of the United States. He saw the Court as the enemy. Jackson remarked that he noted the order. He then said, "Let them enforce it." Courts do not have standing armies. Nixon could have refused to turn over the tapes.

    When the WT or GB, or any combination thereof, is held criminally liable with meaningful sanctions, this thread should have a massive celebration.

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    Without opining about Australian law, chances are this case will fail. It is unclear to me what its goal is. I can see a court order demanding compliance with the law. The Witnesses will refuse. Australia comes out of the same tradition as England and the United States. European countries, such as France, and quasiEuropean countries, such as Russia, acknowledge that religion needs some restraints. Australia wilh have a high tolerance for respecting religions.

    I agree. It looks to me like the Australian court system is just kicking the can down the road on this over and over - it has been going on for quite some time now. So - now we can wait until October 11, right?

    However, as I said before, it is probably some good harmless fun for certain ex-JWs who like to speculate on such things.

  • ScenicViewer
    ScenicViewer

    "... it has been going on for quite some time now. So - now we can wait until October 11, right?"

    But isn't it really just getting started? As someone mentioned, the legal system is a big wheel that turns very slowly. Delays, postponements, continuations, requests for this and that, are all part of the normal legal process, are they not? I'm not suggesting this case will 'bring down the Watchtower', but if the only outcome is that the Society is made to comply, then it's a great victory.

    I have wondered why it hasn't already complied. To not go along with a law that is designed to protect children leaves me a little mystified, especially when that organization claims to be the only true Christian religion on earth. Is the organization hiding something? Maybe, maybe not, but compliance is the right thing.

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    Hopefully in the meantime of this 'long' process, the sheer negative publicity about the WTS will have a big impact. How will the WTS defend itself that they don't want to do "background checks?" Where could they point in the Bible that that would be wrong for them to do? And there would be no cost to them. What principle could they possibly use to defend themselves?

  • steve2
    steve2
    When the WT or GB, or any combination thereof, is held criminally liable with meaningful sanctions, this thread should have a massive celebration.

    I perhaps sound unexpectedly Pollyannish, but I think it is fantastic that we are free to discuss the matter on this forum, in contrast to having it closed down or in some way circumvented by organized forces (e.g.,a Watchtower ruling that JWs are not to speculate or exchange information on the matter). So regardless of the outcome - whether it be protracted or not, or an effectual or ineffectual legal decision - I remind myself how 'adult' it is to have these kinds of exchanges. I agree that it tests one's patience from time to time, but I'm always free to not read such threads and have a breather.

    In the meantime, I tend towards Band on the Run's views: The Watchtower is not a naive party, running scared and un-goaled. In ways that we probably do not realize, it will fight this, with its corporate entities purposely set up to 'slip out' of what you or I would consider moral/ethical duty. It has well paid lawyers whose bread and butter is the very stuff we are discussing. At one level the Watchtower might be a bit nervous, but, knowing lawyers the way I do, at another level there'll be a huge amount of "Bring it on!" among Watchtower lawyers.

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    Personally, despite all the talk that has been posted on this thread, I think Shakespeare said it best in that it all is "full of sound and fury signifying nothing." Mad Sweeney hit the nail on the head when he said that the net effect both on the Governing Body and the WTS will be nil. The Australian legal system can huff and puff but they won't be able to blow this house down.

    That doesn't mean that pursuit of this case in Australian courts is entirely in vain. The bad publicity it will generate for the WTS in that country will have repurcussions there. But I very much doubt it will be felt elsewhere, especially given Australia's geographic isolation and sparse population. No, this will roll off the Governing Body and the WTS like water off a duck's back. And you can be sure that none of the WTS publications will mention this case at all, making sure that the rank and file will be ignorant of what is happening in Australia. Look how effectively the WTS has covered its tracks with respect to its NGO affliliation with the United Nations. How many Witnesses still don't know this ever happened? It will be the same with this Australian pedophile mess.

    Quendi

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Exactly, Quendi. It isn't about hoping the GB get put into jail. It is about how they defend this case, what their attorneys say in their behalf, and how much publicity those statements (which are almost guaranteed to be hypocritical or otherwise damn the Borg in some way) can generate.

    Think of the circles they are going to have to speak in to explain to the judge just why "the Faithful and Discreet Slave" is a no-show. Can they come out and say in public, "really, your honor, the Faithful and Discreet Slave is just a metaphor that doesn't really exist?" No. Will their sleight-of-hand rhetoric that they use in their publications and talks to the faithful work on a seasoned judge and prosecuting attorney? Doubtful. But they have to say SOMEthing and that SOMEthing will be recorded.

    I, for one, can't wait to see what it is regardless of the outcome.

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    "The wheels of justice grind slowly but exceedingly fine..."

    I don't know where this quote originates but it seems appropriate for these times.

    We have watched our nation fall under the spell of liars, tyrants, warmongers, and thieves and we long for the day that justice will be served. We are both angry and sorry for those that have fallen under the spell and cannot see what is happening right in front of their eyes. How could it happen? But, I do believe that justice will be served.
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2556519

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