Victoria, Australia: FYI-Far reaching ramifications of the criminal indictment of the GB

by AndersonsInfo 67 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  Broken Promises

  I don't think Steve2 is "attacking" you or anyone else, Barbara. His 2nd last post is merely clarifying a few points that you had made. Surely he's allowed to correct any mistakes you make?

  You may regard yourself as a messenger but it's important that the message you are conveying is correct. The only time you ever bother to post on this db is for child abuse issues so it comes across as though this is your specialty and the only reason you have for posting on this board.

  Twice, it has been pointed out that the Vic Police Commissioner resigned over issues that are not related to this case. It is important to clarify this so that reports don't become sensationalised by those who grab onto any piece of gossip they can grab.
• 

  Gayle

  CoCo,,I 'always' enjoy your comments,,you are so funny,, and Barbara, I enjoy your "passer alonger" efforts and your opinions I value always. I sure don't like when any do any kind of "attack" on your gathering information best as can be, with your research ability. This case is an evolving case across the world with different laws and approach. This is a complex case with a unique twist and we can't expect it to be done quickly. Especially when it is a new kind of accusation and it is against a religion.

  I enjoy hearing others with concerns or to question things but it would be good to dip into the sources themselves instead of killing the messenger of some information but may not have it all yet. We are all trying to glean out information about an organization that is so secretive. So some things come out in bits and pieces but that is better than the nothing that the WTS provides.
• 

  steve2

  I can only reiterate Gayle's sentiments and give a nod to BrokenPromises observations. I take ownership that my style is more direct and inquisitive and I can always learn to back off and/or make it clearer still that my comments are not to "take" issue so much as to clarify and get facts on this slowly evolving case. People such as Barbara bring this to wider attention and if I have been remiss in acknowledging the tremendous skills involved in bringing all this information together, I need to be humble enough to say my approach is not always the best.

  I could also make it clearer that when I raise questions I am not expecting Barbara to answer - or calling her to account for a legal fine-point, but welcoming comments from others such as Band on the Run who is a lawyer.
• 

  AndersonsInfo

  Thank you Steve2 for your explanation. Your input and thoughts on the subject under consideration are as welcome on the board as the next persons, but from the very beginning when Steven Unthank was introduced to this board, you have not come across particularly complimentary of him nor I, for that matter, for sharing his activities on JWN even though the way he was going about it was unusual. For those who want to double check my statement, go back to the first thread I started about these events in Victoria, Australia. Maybe it is your style of writing that is the problem, and from now on I will try to take that into consideration.

  You said this in one of your last posts: "Barbara had said these were not facts, citing the principle of the international sovereign right of states ..."

  "My friend said the principle had been misapplied by Barbara;"

  You also stated that all of the GB were Americans. The writer of the post disagreed with you and said so. I didn't say so, the author of the article that I started this thread off with disagreed with you.

  If I am wrong in what I say, I will own up to it, but as I said in my last post the statements you took issue with were not mine. The person who made those statements is probably reading this board, so we'll see if I will be posting his opinion about the international sovereign right of states, etc.

  I personally don't know why Steven Unthank hasn't responded to your emails, Steve2. I'm glad you did try though.

  As to Victoria's Police Commissioner, I know what I read in the paper. I wasn't saying in my original post on the subject that the statement in the paper was in anyway related to Steven Unthank and his determination to have WT obey the WWC Act. I was merely making an observation that I was optimistic that the new government was going to do something about WT's refusal to obey the law in that apparently child abuse had not been correctly handled by the authorities in the past and this had something to do with the Commissioner's forced resignation. I do try not to make statements that I don't have a source for. Perhaps the newspaper reporter was in error. I'll try to find the article.

  Barbara
• 

  Mattieu

  Anywho.... On a lighter note, its been a glorious Spring day here in Vic.... I hope br Toole brought his sunglasses with him...
• 

  steve2

  Thanks for your response Barbara. Sometimes with the best intentions in the world communication can become fraught. Some of my assumptions have not been sound. Yes, I had assumed the GB were composed of American citizens when they hail from other countries but presumably reside in the States. I certainly have closely questioned aspects of Stephen Unthank's approach and because you have brought his work to wider attention it's unfortunate that my questioning has sometimes strayed to asking you to explain matters when you have simply reported the material.

  I need to phrase my questions in terms of "Does anyone know anything about this...?" rather than coming across as adversarial. All of us here on this thread are obviously interested in the topic even though we may have different takes on it so to speak. I'm also realizing I need a healthy dose of patience to see how matters turn out in the longer term.
• 

  Quarterback

  So what are we expecting from today's court experience?
• 

  Aussie Oz

  Quarterback... nothing!

  I have said it before and i'll say it again...

  this is going to play out for YEARS. (unless the LAW forces speed) The Watchtower will do everything from ignoring the law to outright frame ups. It would be no surprise at all if they were a no show today, possibly sending some junior paper chaser to file of collect documents.

  It's going to be like watching a slow game of tennis.

  oz

  Go Unthank!
• 

  sizemik

  International criminal law treaties and charters have been changing at a swift pace with the new globalisation of corporate entities.

  It is now standard practice that entities who have interests in other countries (particularly in the developed world) are bound by the laws of that country and are bound to answer charges for criminal conduct in that country. Somewhat opposite to Steve, I would be surprised if the Governing entity of the WTB&TS would be immune from criminal prosecution in Australia on account of US citizenship or geographical location.

  It has absolutely nothing to do with "freedom of religion" or US constitutional rights . . . it's answering criminal charges for the violation of what are essentially human rights protection laws in another country. It's not like they've been seen urinating in public . . . these are serious criminal charges. Like Oz said however . . . this is a big wheel that turns very slowly.

  These articles may help for those interested . . .

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_criminal_law

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_of_international_law

  http://www.llrx.com/features/int_crim.htm

  http://law.jrank.org/pages/1397/International-Criminal-Law-TREATIES-OTHER-DOCUMENTS.html

  http://www.asil.org/erg/?page=treaties
• 

  AndersonsInfo

  Here are the links to the articles on the Chief Commissioner of Police. Notice all the references to child abuse issues:

  http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/simon-overland-heads-for-cover-after-child-protection-report/story-e6frf7kx-1226003290410
  
  http://news.maars.net/blog/2011/04/21/pressure-mounts-on-embattled-police-chief-simon-overland/
  
  http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/premier-ted-baillieu-demands-police-chief-simon-overland-fix-problems/story-fn7x8me2-1226043094839

  I still haven't located one particular newspaper article discussing the reasons for Overland's resignation where the words "child abuse" were used, but I will continue to look.

  http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3228084.htm
  
  In the above article note the statement re: the Office of Police Integrity investigation into crime statistic fudging:

  "What it did find was inherent flaws in police methodology, including uncertainty about whether a crime should be recorded when it's reported to police or when it enters the database; that affects the accuracy of police response times."

  In conversation with Steven, he told me that over the previous two years he continually reported breaches of the WWC laws to the police until they literally ran into the thousands of reported crimes and not one ever made the statistics.
  
  The following is the official state government announcement regarding the resignation of Chief Commissioner Overland.
  
  http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/1170-statement-from-the-deputy-premier.html?qh=YToxOntpOjA7czo4OiJvdmVybGFuZCI7fQ%3D%3D
  
  
  The following is from Victoria's No. 1 news radio station.
  
  http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/blog-with-derryn-hinch/was-simon-overland-pushed/20110616-1g5fi.html
  
  The above radio discussion provides a clue.
  
  It says in quoting Overland:

  "Overland claimed today that the damning Ombudsman’s report - blaming him for releasing dodgy crime figures favouring the Labor Government before last year’s state election – was not ‘the straw that’s broken the camel’s back’. What? Did he intend to resign today anyway?"

  Enough of that.

  A couple of people have stated that they emailed Steven but didn't get a reply. According to Steven, he didn't receive any such emails and if he had received them they would have been answered. Here's the link for his personal website that he provided. He'd like to hear from you:

  http://www.stevenunthank.com/

  Also if you're interested, click on the "About Steven Unthank" page. There you will find contact details. Or you can go to the "Polls & Comments" page, and after taking the poll please feel free to leave a comment. In addition, Steven can be contacted through Facebook if you have an account and wants to send a message.
  
  Now Steven has a Working with Children Check web site where you can find out what does or does not constitute "working with children."
  
  http://workingwithchildrencheck.wordpress.com/
  
  
  Steven said he put a lot of time and effort into setting up this site to assist everyone in understanding the Working with Children laws. He did not provide specifics in relation to the laws and their application within "religious organizations" as such discussions he'll leave for courtroom arguments. Here's more information for clarification:
  
  NOTE TO ALL VISITORS:

  This web site has been set up for the purpose of providing general information only in relation to the Working with Children laws in the State of Victoria, Australia. As such, it is not legal advice, nor should it be viewed as replacing legal advice.

  This web site was set up, and is maintained, by Steven Unthank, following numerous requests from individuals for such a site.