on the subject of elders reading this message board

by cptkirk 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cptkirk

    very interesting comments band. i was wondering if you might share some of what you're on? i think the legal situations pertained to copyrighted documents, such as the elders manual.

  • mrquik

    I believe many elders like myself have known for quite some time that many beliefs are false:

    1. The meaning of "generation. 2. 144.000 being a literal number. 3. Millions now living will never die. 4. "New Light" 5. Prophetic Failure. 6. The iron grip of the governing body. 7. That this or any other religion is approved & is directed by "Holy Spirit". 8. That the GB should be followed blindly. 9. That 1914 was the beginning or end of anything.

    By now, many have figured out this is not nor ever was, the true religion. Unfortunately, many have invested far too much to walk away. So they cling to that vague & distant promise of everlasting life. You've got to admit that is a powerful incentive. And they have that comfort blanket of the "organization" to hold on to. If you are an elder & have found yourself in this dilemma, you have my sympathy. I understand.

  • cptkirk

    well said mrquik. that incentive struck me as another contradiction though. similar to the "it's not about the people", "the true followers will be known by the love they have among eachother" contradiction. similarly to seek god for selfish reasons (everlasting life for yourself), also seemed to be another contradiction. for example if all seeking public office were actually seeking public office for their own benefit (not for the work of the people), wouldn't public office become near completely corrupt? similarly all those seeking the kingdom for their own personal benefit, arent they now corrupting god's kingdom? the same as those seeking their own desire, are corrupting mans government?

  • Violia

    yes Mrquirk,

    that is what I have seen too. They know they have got it wrong on the things you mentioned but are too invested in it to quit. A close friend, elder, said he would not bite the hand that fed him. His life had been improved by the org and it did not matter what he personally thought, he'd hang in with the org as his entire life revolved around it. Truth meant nothing in the end. Social support was what it was about all along . I was so shocked as I'd had always been told that the kh was just a place to gather to worship Jehovah and not a social center. But in the end he made some high profile friends and all that went out the window. He'd DF someone for having the same thoughts he had . I don't know how he slept at night, but he did.

    there are more elders like him than I care to imagine. So many are just there b/c it is their entire life now. They have nothing else to go back to. Others like another elder I knew, just wanted to find a place to raise his family and they seem to fit with jws. He was smart and kept a careful watch on is family so they did not get hurt. for him the jws were a good fit socially. they really did not worry about the doctrines at all. He was /is quite good at what he does, amazing actor.

    In the end I am not sure who is right, but if we are going for TRUTH, jws don't have it. if you fit in socially, it can be an OK ( double) life.

    Also, paradise on earth is just as good as heaven, they are both just a hope, who knows what happens when we die.

  • Diest

    King Rat is a great book and it really describes what the Elders have. They are rulers over the R&F, and we are here to liberate them.

    Band it was a book/movie about a Japanese run camp.

    The book was by

    James Clavell

  • steve2

    cptkirk, your optimistic assumption that unknown but possibly large numbers of elders visit this forum betrays a lovely naivete and credits the JW elders with far too much interest in other points of view. They're not. Any free time they've got would be spent in non-theocratic activities; the last thing they'd want to do is scroll to troll.

    I'd guess it would be a truly exceptional elder who would have the brain power let alone the motivation to lurk here. Don't let the claims of some to be elders fool you entirely. Hell, the internet being what it is, I could claim to be an elder - which I'm not, BTW - and you'd have no way of verifying my claim. Yes, I'd say there could be an active elder here or there on this forum - but it's probably not a representative sampling of active elders. Be skeptical and keep the assumptions to a necessary minimum. This is the internet - that vast anonymous playground where people can be whoever they say they are.

  • Violia

    Yes, King Rat sounds good. The elder friend whose life revolved around the org, and not the doctrines is an example .In real life he was a nobody , poor and not formally educated. He was very intelligent/polished and self educated himself, but he had a nothing job. In the org he was flying high with high profile friends and all the good stuff.

  • Violia


    what you say is true, but that does not negate that many have lost belief in our core doctrines re 1914 and all that entails. They are social jws and just stay b/c their lives are good. If they get pushed too far, they might start looking at the boards or just fade.

  • cptkirk

    it's a process of accumulating data. i want to know the full truth about "the truth". and having this resource is a great tool in that pursuit. takes time to get the accurate picture. i had a teacher in school i remember he said "you all start off with an A, it's incumbent on you to keep the A, or lose it." I like to look at life like that. to many this seems naive, but i find it the best way to gather information. in other words, take everything at face value, then over time, vet the inconsistencies, slowly moving closer to accuracy.

    my initial impressions from reading this board (before i participated), were bethelites (whatever they're called, the guys at patterson etc)...were reading this board regularly to figure out who was who. there were a number of posts which intimated this. but now, after clarification, it would seem this is not correct.

    what would now seem accurate would be "outsmartthesystem"'s post, that they only come here when someone turns in a fellow congregation member, and specifically mentions this web site in context.

  • Violia

    the 1 elder friend i have mentioned (" don't bite the and that fed me") would not come here b/c he already knew the fallacies in the wts doctrines and would not need us to tell them this. it has occ happened that someone has been turned into the elders ( frequently a family member) and had their posts printed out and presented at a JC. I recall vividly Island woman having this experience.

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