on the subject of elders reading this message board

by cptkirk 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cptkirk

  i'm still laughing to myself thinking about elders/bethelites reading this messageboard. yet another contradiction to throw in the basket. didn't they always say how dangerous it is to read anything that contradicts the teachings of the wts? even a disfellowshiping offense?

  but for these guys the standard is different? think of all the information presented here which completely un-does the wtbs teaching. not just random people venting/voicing their anger towards some policy which made them miserable. but actual real concrete information that truly un-does most of what the wtbs teaches.

  that is always the knee-jerk superficial reaction to isnt it? that people are bitter about some dictate which made them unhappy. never that people actually took the time to research the dictate and find out it was complete nonsense?

  anyway i'm actually posting this for a reason. if the afore mentioned information stated is accepted, can we not set up an equation then?

  would it not be reasonable to believe that these guys do not even believe what they are teaching themselves? think about it. if these guys get the ok to come here, and try to finger people (which will expose them to massive amounts of information that completely un-does their dogma).

  isn't there only one possible reason they would put their folks in the line of fire in this way? that one reason being, they dont believe it themselves. therefore there is no risk in coming here, because their motives for being "elders/bethelites" etc. has nothing to do with "a dogma". therefore, the dogma is never in jeopardy for these folks, because it's not their prime mover to begin with!

  this is a very simple equation which would lead to this conclusion. the math is there. if they are always so keen on teaching that nobody is immune, anyone thinking he is something is nothing, pride before a fall etc etc etc. then what is left? there is only one conclusion. they thesmevels do not believe what they are teaching, they value their status in the wts, because they failed in the real world and some sort of status was their whole entire motivation all along. this would keep them immune no matter how much disproves their dogma, because their dogma is secondary anyway. and they will just wait for noolite if the heat gets to be to much.

  you should see some of these guys when they get to be around true status. their entire attitude shifts on a dime. you think they are so pious and all this..get them around real status, their personalities shift on a dime. i've seen it many times. if you are still in that organization, try it out sometime. if you dont have any access to anyone with status, i guess you'll never know. but if you have some connection of some sort, take an elder with you sometime, and watch his entire persona disintegrate.
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  sir82

  You seem to have several large, unfounded assumptions underpinning your argument.

  You seem to believe that dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of random elders & Bethelites are reading this website.

  It has been established that on occasion someone from Bethel (or hired by Bethel) reads some postings here. In particular, they look at specific topics that could produce legal problems for the WTS.

  If someone from Bethel (or hired by Bethel) is looking for such things, I think I can say ith a 99.999% degree of confidence that they don't read posts like "what's your favorite pizza topping" or even "A continuing series....reason #8614 why the trinity is true". Such things don't matter to them.

  It's far more likely that Bethel does hire someone to monitor the site, searching for certain key words. If instead Bethelites are assigned to do so, there certainly wouldn't be more than a handful, and it would likely be those who have a lot to lose if they "turn rogue" (think: 60+ year old lifetime Bethelites with no retirement savings, no wealthy family, and no hope of any sort of life outside of Bethel).

  Run of the mill elders don't read this website. If anyone does stumble onto here, they have one of 2 reactions: (1) immediately turn off the PC, rip the power cable from the wall, and kneel down and pray for forgiveness, or (2) stick around long enough to realize their beliefs are a sham.
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  No Room For George

  Man, I remember when I first started lurking, it felt like looking at child pornography at first, not that I know what looking at child pornography feels like, but you get the picture!!!! Felt like I was doing something obscene, browsing here.
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  cptkirk

  as i've stated multiple times in the past. i dont fully understand the inner workings of this organization. nor do i know in what capacity

  elders/bethelites read this site. i do although have a reasonably good idea of how the borg functions at it's higher levels. and i've been told by

  members of this web site, that they do come here. with that stated, you can see why i worded it the way i did. "i'm laughing to myself thinking" about

  them reading this. so you're saying even dozens of elders would be an exaggeration? now if THAT is true, i would agree my logic is fucked. but

  that isn't the way it was articulated to me.
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  unshackled

  Felt like I was doing something obscene, browsing here.

  Know what you mean Miz. It wasn't this forum that made me feel that way though, my eyes were already half open before coming here. It was book about Mormons that lead me to scrutinize the WT. I distinctly remember pausing before typing 'Charles Taze Russell' into the Google machine. I had been out for years, but still had something wired in my head that this was "wrong", if only for a second or two.
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  outsmartthesystem

  Agree again NRFG! That is classic fear and cult mind control! It controlled both you and I to the point where even when we detached ourselves from the borg and wanted to know the truth.....we still felt guilty initially when we came to this website!

  I would disagree Cpt. I think that most elders do indeed believe everything. They are captive to the concept. So even if there is a teaching that doesn't make sense......they force themselves to accept it because 1) when greater light is shed on the matter....perhaps they'll understand better and 2) this HAS to be God's organization.

  Overall....I think the vast majority do believe EVERYTHING. Then there are some that may wonder about a thing or two....but anything they wonder about they just accept that they are imperfect and should not challenge the authenticity of the spiritual food they receive. Then there are some who have doubts but have spent far too long in the borg to call it quits. Cognitive dissonance takes over and their minds simply will not allow themselves to question anything. These are the elders that intrigue me the most. I call it Roger Clemens syndrome. I believe whole heartedly that he did steroids. So does everyone else including his family and his teammates. Yet he denies it. Do I think he is lying? Strangely enough....no. I believe he has managed to truly convince himself that he is innocent. And so it goes with some elders. They've managed to convince themselves that their doubts are illegitimate because giving up on a hope and a life that they've poured their heart and soul into for so many years is just too painful to comprehend. And then of course there are a few elders that think it is all BS and are perusing this message board right now.

  I think that only the elders that have doubts that also want satisfying answers are on this board. All the rest heed the instructions from the mother ship.
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  jean-luc picard

  There was a thread a few weeks ago on how many elders/ exelders are members here.

  There are indeed several elders who come one the site. They realize that the WT$ has tricked them and that they are in a trap. They just dont want to put their whole life in the crusher yet. Yes its really THAT difficult for some elders, who no longer believe its the truth, but realize just how well they've been trapped. The traumer of losing close family, wives children, parents, etc is very painful. I have lost all of my family. My heart goes out to those who are not yet where I've got to. Its difficult living a double life. But many of us understand why and what they are feeling.
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  Ding

  In pre-internet days, ex-JWs like David Reed would send out mass mailings to JWs.

  Much of what they sent was copies of old WT literature that promoted old dates for Armageddon, contradictory doctrines, and the like.

  Many would turn this "apostate" literature over to the elders unread.

  A number of elders read them in order to protect the flock and left the borg because of what they saw.
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  cptkirk

  yea...well i'm still waiting for some answers on the question of logic.

  if elders come here to finger someone - how do they rationalize this? it's a huge break in logic. and it tells me they care about one thing, power/control. not dogma.

  also what is the verdict? how often are bethelites/elders reading this site for information? and how many of them? 6? 60? 600?

  i've seen things that tell me they dont believe the dogma. that they stay in because like you mentioned there is to much to lose, hence they begin to

  be motivated by things such as self importance. their feeling of status in the org, etc.
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  BluesBrother

  I do not believe that elders or Bethel regularly monitor this or other boards with a view to "fingering someone" The only definite cases of somebody being brought to task for posting here have been when someone they know grassed on them . I am not saying that they never look at it but we should not get paranoid about it. I have left enough clues over the years to have them figure who I am if they really wanted to.