Are you an "apostate"?

by cedars 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • jamiebowers
    However if you're still serious about the bible and what it contains, surely you would object to being called an apostate given the meaning of the word?

    Since when has the Watchtower had anything to do with the Bible? It's a sales cult in the same vein as Amway.

  • sizemik
    I personally can't stand it, purely because it has negative connotations.

    For a significant portion of the population . . . "Christian" has negative connotations . . . as does "muslim" . . . but those that profess it, wear it with pride.

    Negativity lies in the eye of the beholder . . . not the wearer of a label . . . unless you let it. If you've "stood aside" from the whacky mis-guided beliefs of a cult and "apostasised" from it, so what . . . wear it with pride . . . or with negativity . . . the choice is yours.

    As a wise person once said . . . "never worry about what people say about you . . . unless it's true."

  • WontLeave

    One man's "traitor" is another man's "freedom fighter". Every JW convert from another religion is an "apostate" to their old church. All the Jewish first-century Christians were "apostates" to Judaism. As long as the Watchtower stands, people will be labelled as "apostates", just like Russell was an "apostate" from his church. When the Society eventually falls, the "apostates" will become "revolutionaries who stood firm for truth and righteousness".

  • Fernando

    Dear friends

    The WBT$ is not consistent about the meaning of a word when defining it, versus when discussing it.

    Apostasy = unfaithfulness.

    That is spiritual unfaithfulness.

    That is spiritual fornication/adultery/prostitution (with demons).

    All religion by design steals our faith and salvation as a powerful agency of the demons. Religionists are the apostates.

    They hide this by changing what words like "apostasy" actually mean.

    Want to catch a Watchtower religionist with their pants down in the act of prostitution with a demon?

    Just ask them to define each of the following in one sentence:

    1. Religion
    2. Spirituality
    3. Faith
    4. Belief
    5. The gospel ("good news")
    6. The Kingdom
    7. Prophet
    8. Prophesy

    To hide their spiritual prostitution with demons, religionists always bang on about sexual sins instead of religious sins. Jesus did the very opposite (Matt chapters 15 and 23). Yup, Jesus was against religion and the teaching of religion (doctrinal dissection and supremacy) known as proselytising (Matt 23:15). Jesus denounced the legalism, moralism, ethnocentrism, and Gnosticism of the elders (Pharisees) and the governing body (Sanhedrin).

    Raymond Franz' Crisis of Conscience had to do with the rampant legalism of the Watchtower Sanhedrin and clergy class. We all know how the Watchtower Sanhedrin hated him and thanked him for slipping these articles into the Watchtower and Awake: g79 6/8 pp. 27-28 Why the Emphasis on Christian Freedom, and w80 5/1 pp. 5-8 Learning from an Experiment That Failed.

    Jesus called Paul out of religion and sent him to teach the "good news" instead - known as evangelising.

    The Watchtower's claim to be "proclaimers of the good news" or "legally defending and establishing the good news" is false. When a Watchtower religionist explains the "good news" he excludes and avoids around 151 of the Bible's 152-odd references to the "good news", mentioning only Matt 24:14 and changing what is meant by the Kingdom to exclude present spiritual realities (1 Cor 2:14-15).

    A Watchtower religionist cannot explain (from the heart) what the "good news" is according to Moses, Isaiah, the Psalmist, or Paul. This is a real problem when you consider that more than half the Bible's references to the "good news" are by Paul (2 Cor 4:4).

    That rascal Rutherford, inebriated and delusional as he may have been, was right when he explained that "all religion"..."is a snare and a racket" (1937_enemies.pdf and 1940_religion.pdf and 4 minute phonograph audio and 1937_Model_study.pdf pp. 41,63,64 and 1936_Protection pp. 6,7).

    Greetings and blessings


    PS - and Christianity is not religion

  • cedars

    Thanks Fernando, I assume from the above that you are explaining why you are not an apostate? Forgive me if I assume incorrectly, it's just that you don't spell it out clearly how you personally feel about the word as applied to you.

    It occurred to me that much of it is in the eye of the beholder, as many seem to be saying. The current uprising in Libya is being fought by the "rebels" (as they are frequently referred to) even though they would regard the main rebel to humanity etc as being Gadaffi himself. Maybe it's all a matter of perspective?

    On the other hand I found this curious synopsis of "apostasy" in my search of the latest Watchtower articles (July 15th 2011, page 15 - footnote):

    "Apostasy" is a standing away from true worship, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment.

    So basically (by this definition) the Society are the apostates, because it can be proven reasonably and irrefutably (to the objective mind) that their teachings are false and do not make sense. In this way they have "fallen away / defected / rebelled from / abandoned" true worship as defined in the bible by super-imposing their own non-scriptural beliefs. Quite how you would successfully argue this case infront of a judicial committee were you to be charged with apostasy is beyond me. With every word you uttered you would be further condemning yourself in their eyes.

  • punkofnice

    Similar to what's been said by mummatron and others.

    'Apostate' = Cult loaded language to set off mental triggers of fear and phobia in the minds that have been 'cleansed' by the publishing corporation. "Minds must be cleansed" (Watchtower, June 1, 1953, p. 350 par. 24).

    It's a 'hate crime' word the WTB$ enjoy using to invent an imaginary 'straw man' that they can knock down. It makes the dubbies feel persecuted and to them is fulfilling their twisted concept of prophecy. It gives them something to feel superior about. It gives them a 'legitimate' WTB$ reason to feel hatred (like in 1984 when they had the 5minute hate), then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked." Watchtower 1961 Jul 15 p.420

    I'm happily 'apostate' just as Jesus and Paul were 'apostates' from the wicked organization in their day.

    So, I have escaped a wicked organization in our day.

    When they point the finger at me they must remember 3 are pointing back at them.

  • 00DAD


    Adding to what PunkofNice in particular said, as well as others, the WTBTS deliberately confuses and confounds the basic meaning of the word "apostate." They do this for a couple of reasons, reasons which are manipulative by design and are the stock-in-trade "Mind-Control" techniques typical of high-control cults.

    They need to DEMONIZE those that disagree with them and also to trigger "THOUGHT-STOPPING" in the minds of the JW faithful in order to prevent them from actually thinking about the validity of:

    1. Their (mis-)application of the term, and
    2. The scriptural-ness of their treatment of so-called "apostates"

    As you realize, most labelled as "apostates" by the WT are not technically guilty of apostasy. For example, it is a gross overstatement to say that a person guilty of sexual sins has rebelled against God. (Compare Jesus response to the woman allegedly "caught at adultery" as recorded at John 8:1-11). But the WT doesn't care about that. They want control. Sorry, they want CONTROL!

    They can't have any one questioning anything about their leadership or creating dissension amongst the Rank and File.

    If you're not familiar with the Walsh Trail, you might find it enlightening. In this 1954 trial in Scotland, as unbelievable as it might seem, Fred Franz admitted under oath in open court that organizational "unity" was more important than truth and JW members could and would be disfellowshipped for not believing an acknowledged false prophecy.

  • Fernando

    Dear Cedars

    Thanks, yes I should have clarified.

    I am not an apostate according to God who created the word to mean "spiritual unfaithfulness" to him via "spiritual intercourse" with demons. This might be evaluated by checking on the 37 occurrences of the word prostit* in the book of Ezekiel, used by God in relation to the Israelites.

    God by his "unmerited favour" has granted me faith in Jesus, by opening my spiritual eyes to the message about him, and the full implications of that message.

    I was unwittingly guilty of apostasy before by tolerating the Watchtower's anti-Christ, anti-gospel and sectarian religion.

    The Watchtower is no different than many other groups infused with the religious spirit that falsely labels dissenters or conscientious objectors as apostates.

    The governing body in Jesus' day also falsely labelled as apostate those that followed Jesus instead of them. Nothing has changed in thousands of years. Religious leaders still demand to be followed instead of Jesus. This makes them pseudo-mediators that have seated themselves in the seat of Moses (Matt 23:2), or the greater Moses namely Jesus who in scripture is the ONE mediator between God and man.

    Nonetheless there may be a case in scripture for wearing the label "Watchtower apostate" with pride as some have noted above: “Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake. Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they [apostate religionists] persecuted the prophets prior to YOU (Matthew 5:11-12).

    So it would seem to be a rather serious matter that one would like to be quite clear on.

    Greetings and blessings


  • allelsefails

    For me I know that I am not an apostate from God or Christ, but I am an apostate from the JWs. I joined them then rejected their idiotic teachings - "I stand away from them" - an apostate. Most JWs are apostate Catholics or Baptists (JWs rarely convert a pagan, Jew, Muslim or atheist) That is what the word means. I don't define any language I use with the "Insight Book". Should all religions be offended because the are "Babylon the Great"? Only if they believe insane misapplication requires a response....

  • Fernando

    How is this for one more instance of Watchtower spiritual confusion, inebriation and insanity?

    Circuit Overseer: "If it is not in harmony with divine teaching it is teachings of demons"! (quoting Divine Teaching district convention of 1993)

    Elderette: "It is better to be wrong with the Society than right on your own"

    Now what about some 1 + 1 = 2?

    CCT OV + Elderette: "It is better to eat at the table of demons with the Society than at Jehovah's table on your own"!


    w52 2/1 p. 81 par. 15 "set a little spiritual table of their own"

    w52 9/15 p. 572 par. 22 "withdraw and set up their own table "

    w50 8/1 p. 231 par. 17 "on their own tables"

    The Devil offers "loving" and "enlightened" Watchtower community on condition you embrace the arrogant GB's false, depleted, reductionist and "truncated gospel" and consequently allow them to steal your faith and salvation!

    And if you reject these "generous terms" you are an unthankful apostate!


    Next time a dub knocks please ask him to explain what the gospel ("good news") is in one word. Yup, you might find it in their publications, albeit fragmented, but it simply is not in their hearts and not on their lips. Yet they claim to be "publishers of the good news" and go to court to "legally defend and establish the good news".

    Imagine that - more than half the Bible's references to the Good News are by Paul, but not one dub can explain the Good News according to Paul, even after studying it this very month (August) in the Watchtower of 15 June pages 7-15! Major back flip on the false gospel to try and hide decades of blatant Watchtower apostasy after being caught with their pants down. It would be a surprise if a single dub noticed.

    The GB are indeed miserable, poor, blind and naked apostates.

    Greetings and blessings


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