587 B.C.E vs 607 B.C.E

by fade_away 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Over the years, I have presented much on the WTS's misquotations, misrepresentations, lies and deceits, and I did not want to repeat old territory.

    My intention with the piece is to track the arguments put out in the Watchtower's article and to then provide counter arguments at those points. I visualised a JW pointing to a certain location in the article and I wanted to provide a tool that enabled a person quickly to locate the counter argument. Hence my constant references to page numbers.

    I have now taken the next natural step with that piece by including headings. This should make it easier to use.

    The article is available at the same URL:


    I am still very keen to hear good criticism, which, as you can see, I am prepared to take on board.


  • Haulin Oats
    Haulin Oats

    Looking at Obves's post, I have to ask:

    Does it seem like JW's religion is "truth" if there is that much math to do to be able to figure out a prophecy?

    Think for a moment all the JW's in 3rd world countries who have trouble with math or simple calculations (or even JW's in advanced countries). Does it seem fair to come up with this BS prophecy stuff, crazy mathematical wizardry, etc. so that they can accept the prophecy and believe? What if they can't understand it? Would you agree/accept/buy-into something you didn't fully understand?

    I think most people have a difficult time grasping this prophecy/fullfilment crap when numbers are involved. Of course, Jesus spread the message using a slide-rule and calculator since mental math was of premier importance during his time (if you believe in fairy-tale historical figures).

    PS, lols at Farkels post. :)

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    HAULIN OATS - the simple logic you provided was part of the 'doubts' that always troubled me. It never seemed to make sense how a god who loves us SOOOOOO much and wants everyone to know him and his purpose would bury so much information under all kinds of crazy math and top it off with contradictory 'unreliable' secular history.

  • irondork

    fade_away: Really, those two lines of evidence hardly provide enough proof to overturn the Bible’s chronology."

    My question is: Is there any way to debunk their "strong evidence" of ...

    I can read evidnce on both sides of this issue all day long and I would still not be in a position of authority to make a decision regarding the facts of the matter. At the end of the day, I do golf course irrigation for a living. I remain only an authority about golf course irrigation.

    If I were to quit my job, return to school and become an historian / archeologist, then I might venture an opinion. That's not going to happen.

    What I can do is examine the historical record associated with the WTS statements of "facts" regarding indisputable bible chronology.

    Suddenly, I'm a genius!

  • sabastious
    What I can do is examine the historical record associated with the WTS statements of "facts" regarding indisputable bible chronology. Suddenly, I'm a genius!

    I have always found it odd that any group of people would feel that the Bible has reliable chronology at all. Sure it has dates, some of which can be verified, but the books aren't even in chronological order. I think there is a strong argument that the Bible's 66 books shouldn't be used for chronology. Look what has happened to the Witnesses who obviously DO live for dates since they rely on the bible's "reliable chronology."


  • thetrueone

    The truth of the matter or topic is that there were select Jews who were exiled to Babylon starting in 605 BCE.,

    further capturing of more Jews continued throughout the following years leading up to 586 BCE.. when the

    destruction of the temple took place, by order of king Nebuchadnezzar.

    This can be calculated by various means even by using the bible itself.

    There have been many archaeological pieces of evidence discovered to collaborated with these dates.

    The WTS. stated that the destruction of ancient Jerusalem occurred in 607 BCE which is calculably wrong.

    The reason this date was selected was done solely to support the 7 times prophecy leading up to 1914 .

    Lets not forget that 1914 was strongly promoted by Russell's idealogical concept of Pyramidology.

    Dates like these held posturing value to these book publishers, vital to attract the publics attention, even though they

    were created fictitiously.

  • thetrueone

    The Babylonian Exile was the period in Jewish history during which the Jews of the ancient Kingdom of Judah were captives in Babylon - conventionally 586-538 BCE . [citation needed]

    According to the Hebrew Bible , there were three deportations of Jews to Babylon: in 597 BCE, involving King Jeconiah and his court and many others; in 587/6 BCE, of his successor King Zedekiah and the rest of the people; and a possible deportation after the assassination of Gedaliah , the Babylonian-appointed governor of Yehud Province , possibly in 582 BCE. The forced exile ended in 538 BCE after the fall of Babylon to the Persian king Cyrus the Great , who gave the Jews permission to return to Yehud province and to rebuild the Temple ; [1] but most Jews chose to remain in Babylon. [citation needed]

    The captivity and subsequent return to the Land of Israel and the rebuilding of the Second Temple in Jerusalem are considered significant events in Jewish history and culture, which had a far-reaching impact on the development of Judaism.


    Table based on Rainer Albertz, "Israel in exile: the history and literature of the sixth century BCE", p.xxi . Alternative dates are possible.

    609 BCEDeath of Josiah
    609-598 BCEReign of Jehoiakim (succeeded Jehoahaz , who replaced Josiah but reigned only 3 months)
    598/7 BCEReign of Jehoiachin (reigned 3 months). Siege and fall of Jerusalem .
    First deportation, 16 March 597
    597 BCEZedekiah made king of Judah by Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon
    594 BCEAnti-Babylonian conspiracy
    588 BCESiege and fall of Jerusalem .
    Second deportation July/August 587
    583 BCEGedaliah the Babylonian-appointed governor of Yehud Province assassinated.
    Many Jews flee to Egypt and a possible third deportation to Babylon
    562 BCERelease of Jehoiachin after 37 years in a Babylonian prison. [2] He remains in Babylon
    538 BCEPersians conquer Babylon (October)
    538 BCE"Decree of Cyrus" allows Jews to return to Jerusalem
    520-515 BCEReturn by many Jews to Yehud under Zerubbabel and Joshua the High Priest.
    Foundations of Second Temple laid

    The biblical history of the Exile

    In the late 7th century BCE, the kingdom of Judah was a client state of the powerful Assyrian empire. In the last decades of the century Assyria was overthrown by Babylon, an Assyrian province with a history of former glory in its own right. Egypt , fearing the sudden rise of the Neo-Babylonian empire , seized control of Assyrian territory up to the Euphrates river in Syria, but Babylon counter-attacked and in the process Josiah , the king of Judah, was killed, although the circumstances are obscure (609 BCE). Judah became a Babylonian client, but in the following years two parties formed at the court in Jerusalem: one pro-Egyptian and the other pro-Babylonian.

    In 599 BCE, the pro-Egyptian party was in power and Judah revolted against Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon laid siege to Jerusalem , [3] and Jehoiakim , the king of Judah, died in 598 BCE with the siege still under way. [4] He was succeeded by his son Jeconiah , aged either eight or eighteen. [5] The city fell about three months later, [6] on 2 Adar (March 16) 597 BCE, and Nebuchadnezzar pillaged Jerusalem and its Temple and took Jeconiah and his court and other prominent citizens (including the prophet Ezekiel ) back to Babylon. [7] Jehoiakim's brother Zedekiah was appointed king in his place, but the exiles in Babylon continued to consider Jeconiah as their Exilarch , or rightful ruler.

    Despite the strong remonstrances of Jeremiah and others of the pro-Babylonian party, Zedekiah revolted against Babylon and entered into an alliance with PharaohHophra of Egypt . Nebuchadnezzar returned, defeated the Egyptians, and again besieged Jerusalem . The city fell in 587. Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the city wall and the Temple, together with the houses of the most important citizens, and Zedekiah was blinded, and taken to Babylon, together with many others. Judah became a Babylonian province, called Yehud Medinata (Yehud being the Babylonian equivalent of the Hebrew Yehuda, or "Judah", and "medinata" the word for province), putting an end to the independent Kingdom of Judah.

    The first governor appointed by Babylon was Gedaliah, a native Judahite; he encouraged the many Jews who had fled to surrounding countries such as Moab , Ammon , Edom , to return, and took steps to return the country to prosperity. Some time afterwards, however - it is not clear when, but possibly 582 BCE - a surviving member of the royal family assassinated Gedaliah and his Babylonian advisors, prompting a rush of refugees seeking safety in Egypt. Thus by the end of the second decade of the 6th century, in addition to those who remained in Yehud (Judah), there were significant Jewish communities in Babylon and in Egypt; this was the beginning of the later numerous Jewish communities living permanently outside Judah in the Jewish Diaspora .

    According to the book of Ezra-Nehemiah , the Persian Cyrus the Great ended the exile in 538 BCE, the year in which he captured Babylon. [8] The Exile ends with the return under Zerubbabel the Prince (so-called because he was a descendant of the royal line) of David and Joshua the Priest (a descendant of the line of the former High Priests of the Temple) and their construction of the Second Temple in the period 520-515 BCE.

    The Babylonian captivity had a number of consequences on Judaism and Jewish culture, including changes to the Hebrew alphabet and calendar and changes in the fundamental practices and customs of the Jewish religion . This period saw the last high-point of Biblicalprophecy in the person of Ezekiel , followed by the emergence of the central role of the Torah in Jewish life. [9] This process coincided with the emergence of scribes and sages as Jewish leaders (see Ezra and the Pharisees ).

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