I would never consult the bible on gender issues.
Works for me!
I would never consult the bible on gender issues.
Works for me!
Ephesians 5:22-33 (NIV 2008) 22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing [b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” [c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Hi Chemical Emotions. I disagree with you about the WTBTS being a religion. The WTBTS is a thought-controlling, publishing and distribution organization - it is not a religion. Why would anyone want to blindly follow the WTBTS' interpretations of the scriptures, instead of reading the Bible and praying for guidance? Unfortunately, their are a lot of very good people who have been deceived by the WTBTS' though-controlling techniques. How many JW husbands would be willing to die to show their wives how much they loved them like Jesus Christ was willing to do according to Eph 5:25-26 for the Jews? The WTBTS cherry-picks scriptures to justify their own perspective and not to gain understanding of how to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
ABibleStudent: I have to agree with you there. They ARE quite thought-controlling.
NewChapter: I would have been pissed if it had been my wedding. That elder would have gotten a black eye.
Also, I never read that article, but that is horrible. I'm going to go look it up right now.
To be fair, the Bible also contains feminism. Growing up I wanted to throw up hearing Paul's sanctiomonious voice against women. I've been away so many decades that I finally read a book about Paul and women. A scholarly book. If you only use the writings Paul actually produced, he was quite the feminist. Mary Magdalene probably supported Jesus financially. She is not a token figure. Is it any accident he first appeared to women who were dismissed by the men. Or maybe the men were so hurt that Jesus spurned them for a woman.
I've been active in NOW and did legal work for the NOW Legal defense Fund. I am fervently prochoice. My JW grandmother was a rabble rouser who only stayed in her place as a technicality. I despised the way women were treated. My father was very abusive and beat my mom and then I became his scapegoat. Nothing overtly sexual happened but the air could be cut, the repressed sexuality was so distorted. Rape was a present threat. Yet we are Jehovah's Witnesses. Rah, Rah. YOu believe in hell, don't you know about sheol, or blood, or the putridness of the Trinity but my daughter has a rape prevention system in place.
Reluctantly, I admit there are gender differences. I fail to see what difference a penis vs. vagina makes in most matters. Men have stronger arms but women have stronger legs for childbirth. Things balance. These differences have absolutely no influence on IQ or status. The Witness invent the status. It did not exist first. Choice issues send me right of this world. I would be active but I get too worked up.
Christ did not choose theologians or disciples with swift minds. He chose fishermen for his male apostles. There were female apostles. They are listed by name and actions. Recently, I cited Gloria Steinem's piece for MS. magazine about if men menstruated. People liked it. The piece is about those in power setting standards. Africans do not believe white is so beautiful. Yet I was raised that being African-American was so disgraceful. One could go no lower. Africans have a different view. Black and white are colors. Why is white, noble and pure and black or dark, dirty, and disdainful. They are neutral colors. Truly, in several senses of the word.
Being an independent woman is the top of my world-view. I can not go near a KH b/c I am so afraid I would smash someone's face in and I've been a pacifist.
Are there any feminists here who used to be JWs?
Yes, very much so. I live in the region that originated the women's rights movement in the US. One of the main reasons I'm a feminist is because of my experiences in the Borg.
What always struck me as pathetic was their insistence that they started the civil rights movement, but they only believe in religious freedom for themselves, not religious freedom for anyone else, not rights for all races/sexes/sexual orientations.
If anyone is not sickened and angered at the dubs horrific history when it comes to women, then they're not paying attention.
we can learn about nature and sex from the bovine family of mammals, both wild and tame…she is unsettled until she finds one and then is bred by him. Now she is contented…
…This bearing of children is the sole privilege of the female. In fact, this is one main reason for creating the female of the human species. There are cases where a girl became pregnant as a result of one sex interview with a boy. …Then if a girl understandingly takes care of herself while the ovum is at large and is causing sex disturbance and cravings within her, she will be able to act like a true lady of irreproachable morals at all times.
Awake! 1967 August 22 p.27, 28
the facts show that the headship of a man is both somatically and psychologically sound and in the best interests of all concerned… The female skull is lighter and its cranial capacity is about 10 percent smaller than that of a male, even as is the rest of the anatomy. .. Implicit in these findings is that man is advantaged by a greater brain size. ..
…certain frustrations of married women, skillfully demonstrates by case histories that many of these particular frustrations can be ended if women will but recognized the fact that the way their bodies are made gives evidence that it is intended for man to be the head. As she expresses it, women must learn the art of "eternal acquiescence" and "deep altruism" in dealing with their husbands if they want to find happiness.
..by the Scriptures' limiting the woman's role in the congregation it makes it more likely that she will have the needed time and energy to look after the needs of her family properly. So, while she may have other interest, she should never forget that as a wife her career is caring for the physical, mental and emotional well-being of her family.
…she has certain difficult days each month during which she cannot give of her best and during which she very much appreciates her husband's showing her consideration. But if she had responsibilities of oversight and was required to hold forth regularly on the public platform regardless, either her performance or her health would suffer.
Kingdom Ministry May 1976 p.5 How Do You View Your Kingdom Hall?
sisters may volunteer for lighter tasks and for preparing food for the workers.
Awake! 1973 March 22 p.13 Chess-What Kind of Game Is It?
chess is frequently characterized as an 'intellectualized fight.'…in chess you have to be a fighter…This helps to explain why there are no topflight women chess players
Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock, 1991 p30
our sisters will never be ministerial servants or elders
BOTR, I'd just like to add to your point. Jesus also confessed that he was the Messiah first to a woman--and a Samaritan at that! SHE ran back to the men, but she couldn't come out and say "It's the Messiah!" No, that would have not worked. She was one smart cookie because instead she said, "Could this be the Messiah?". So the men could feel good about finding the answer themselves. Jesus had no such problem.
Highest rank for sisters is Missionary status or Gilead Grad.. I would bet that in Bethel even the Laundry and House Keeping Dept. are run by Brothers.
Band on the Run: thanks for your comment. There are better parts of thhe bible, and worse parts, I guess. I'm sorry you had to go through what you did growing up. That sounds just...awful.
rebel8 WTF? What did they say about guys having bigger heads? WHAT? THE? F*CK? IS? THIS? SH*T?
designs: I thought so. That's sad. So many women who could accomplish so much, if only they were allowed...
women must learn the art of "eternal acquiescence" and "deep altruism" in dealing with their husbands if they want to find happiness.
I just threw up in my mouth a little reading that disgusting bit of misogyny.