There Goes My Wife. . . .

by southern.finesse 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • nugget

    I was deeply moved by your heartfealt vent. I would be inclined to write to her and let her know how her attitude has affected you and make it clear that it is her attitude that has driven you away. The woman you loved is still there but covered by layers of cultish programing and it is incredibly hard to connect with that person when they are full of zeal prior to baptism.

    She has not abided by bible counsel for unbelieving wives to be submissive and to win their husbands through demonstration of christian traits.

    She has not respected you as head of the household by doing research as requested. After all if the society is correct what does she have to fear.

    She is not up to date with current teachings and is getting baptised into a faith that she doesn't fully understand or comprehend. And what is worse the people who are supposed to be teaching her are also not up to date.

    She has become a selfish, ignorant and disrespectful person and as a christian she should be loving, humble and kind. If a religion turns you into an obnoxious, arrogant person then it has little value.

  • carla

    I'm sorry to hear about her baptism. I have been in the same spot as you and remember how sick I felt when he was getting dunked. Yes, they turn into super dubs for awhile but it can get better.

    should you stay together I suggest the following-

    In order to have some neutral place where you can be husband & wife and have some peace I suggest you two come to an agreement that no wt literature is to be out in the house anywhere and you will not keep any apostate literature out either. That way it is not jw/wt 24/7 and constantly in your face or hers. Her authentic self can peak through every now and again when she does not have constant jw reminders lying about the house. It's kind of like a subliminal thing when they even see a wt or awake, it triggers their dubbiness. If she chooses not to agree then you start leaving C of C book out and all the other so called apostate books, start printing out the most wretched jw stories you can find (and there are countless) the murder/suicides, shunning, child abuse, etc... if she complains make a deal with her that you will not leave those lying about if she doesn't leave her literature around. Everytime she 'forgets' put one of yours out. This may sound completely immature but it sometimes is the only way to keep the house free of that crap and get them to focus on something, anything else when they are new dubs. Makes for a much more peaceful home when they do not feel the need to point out the latest rag to you or read such and such an article from the blasphemous rags they peddle.

    Good luck!

  • DesirousOfChange

    BLACK SHEEP said: Did you know that, according to her church rules, she cannot remarry until you do the horizontal tango with someone of the opposite sex (homo and beastiality don't count)?

    That is also OLD Truth. The gay & bestiality exclusions were done away with years ago. (At that time they felt the marriage bed hadn't been defiled unless there was "insertive" sex (intercourse) with a member of the opposite sex.) Now, ANY sexual indiscretion is grounds for divorce, even just the touching (for sexual stimulation) of another person's genitals. Thus, going to a strip club & being fondled by the dancer or touching the gal's coochie while getting a lap dance would qualify as grounds for "scriptural" divorce.

  • dozy

    Sorry mate. The only positive thing I can say is that when she is baptised , all of a sudden the "love bombing" will end & she will be regarded as a weak new sister. If a pioneer has been studying with her , she can only book her time when she finishes the existing book & will be dropped like the proverbial hot potato when this happens. The sisters will happily share all the juicy congregation gossip & scandals with her - all the negative talk that has been suppressed with come out.

    You might find that this changes her attitude somewhat. Otherwise - good luck.

  • southern.finesse

    I wrote this to my wife a couple of months ago, this site has been a very big help to me on the educational background of the WTS and understanding her mindframe. Keep in mind, I was never this blunt with her but felt the need because our marriage was at a dead end with no where to go. Something needed to be said/done to progress. I wrote this in hopes that she would just hear me out and address one of the serious issues I have concerning 607.(my comments are in blue) Sorry so long. . . . Ive given you this article before but I will go more in-depth about the problem I believe is blocking any progression in our marriage concerning our religious differences. Please read carefully and understand my stance.

    *** g84 11/22 pp. 3-4 An Open or a Closed Mind —Which Do You Have? ***
    An Open or a Closed Mind —Which Do You Have?
    PEOPLE do have difficulties getting along with one another, do they not? And although most of us like to think of ourselves as being open -minded, let us ask ourselves with complete honesty: Is the narrow-minded and bigoted person really always the “other fellow”? `
    In reality your mind may be more closed than you imagine. Do you at times say: “Two things I never talk about are religion and politics”? Or do you turn up your nose at foods you have not eaten before? “Snails? Never!” Or how do you feel about unfamiliar types of medical treatment? “Acupuncture? Pure quackery!” Or do you “know”—as, for example, “everyone” in Germany does—that Gypsies are thieves, North Germans are stubborn, everyone from Berlin is a loudmouth, Swabians are stingy and foreigners are lazy? Of course, similar ideas are found everywhere—yes, in your country too. What Is an Open Mind ? An open mind is free from the fetters of prejudice, which by one dictionary is defined as follows: “A judgment or opinion, favorable or unfavorable, formed beforehand or without due examination; a mental decision based on other grounds than reason or justice; especially, a premature or adversely biased opinion.” A necessary part of life is that we make decisions and reach judgments. But decisions made “without due examination” or judgments reached “on other grounds than reason or justice” are evidences of a closed mind .

    Having an open mind , on the other hand, means to be receptive to new information and ideas. It means being willing to examine and to evaluate information without a biased attitude. By retaining what is worthwhile and rejecting what is worthless, we can reach definite conclusions on a solid basis and still leave our minds open to further revision should additional information become available at a future time. He who feels he has learned it all can be sure that this attitude will prevent him from ever learning more.

    Why People Have Closed Minds A closed mind may indicate lack of knowledge. We may know so little about a subject, or have information so distorted or incomplete, that the facts necessary to reach proper conclusions are missing. For example, if you are living in Germany and are so sure that everyone from Berlin is a loudmouth, ask yourself just how many people from Berlin you know. Enough to judge several million people accurately? Perhaps more careful thought will lead you to the realization that you have met more loudmouths from Hamburg, Frankfurt or Munich than you ever have met from Berlin. [Our Example: The Watchtower teaches that the fall of Jerusalem’s Temple occurred in the year 607 BCE. This suggested year combined with the addition of a “day for year” rule combines 2,520 years to 607 BCE = 1914. It is taught that Jesus Christ Himself began His invisible Kingdom presence in 1914. Even more importantly in the year 1919, He chose a “Faithful and Discreet Slave” after His inspection was complete.

    Since the Bible only give relative dates, “ex: 7th year of Chad” and not absolute “ex: in the year 875 BCE” the fact of the matter is reading the Bible alone doesn’t produce any absolute dates. More information is required before obtaining an absolute date to pinpoint events in the span of time. Without historical/secular evidence, there would not be an absolute dating system. So saying that “607 BCE” is “Bible-based” is to entirely miss the point. The Bible is inspired and all the historical evidence un-earth corroborates and runs directly parallel with all events within its pages. One must obtain accurate knowledge concerning both Biblical event/historical evidence concerning the Fall of Jerusalem PRIOR to putting faith in this foundational doctrine given by the Watchtower Organization.]

    A closed mind may betray a lack of interest in the subject or a reluctance to look into the matter. In fact, it could even be a sign of uncertainty or doubt. For example, if we are unable to defend our religious views, we may find ourselves lashing out against those who challenge our beliefs, not with logical arguments, but with slurs and innuendos. This smacks of prejudice and of a closed mind . [Our example: The Bible teaches and historical evidence corroborate that the fall of Jerusalem occurred in Nebuchadnezzar’s 19 th year of reign “relative date”. The Bible is silent concerning all absolute dates. So does historical evidence corroborate and support the Watchtower teaching of 607 BCE as the Fall of Jerusalem? No, it points to 587 BCE as the fall of Jerusalem (20 year later). Nebuchadnezzar was a part of the Neo-Babylonian Empire which ruled until 539 BCE before being destroyed by Darius/Cyrus. Yet, the Watchtower agrees with Historical evidence as it pertains to 539 BCE but not 587BCE. Both absolute dates were arrived at using the same types of historical data. Interesting enough, there is more historical evidence to corroborate the Fall of Jerusalem in 587 BCE than the fall of Babylonian Empire in 539 BCE. [So since 539 BCE was end of the dynasty, all we need to do is count backwards to the “19 th year” of Nebuchadnezzar’s rule. In order to do that, one needs to build a Neo-Babylonian kings list. By compiling a list of all the Kings after Nebuchadnezzar, confirming lengths of each reign and by that we can establish what year was the Fall of Jerusalem. For example, a "presidents list" 9/11 occurred in the 1st year of George W. Bush. . what year would that be counting back from 2011? 44 Obama (2009 - present) 43 Bush Jr (2001-2009) 42 Clinton (1993-2001) 41 Bush Sr (1989-1993) 40 Reagan (1981-1989) Since Bush Jr was president in office for 8 years from (2001-2009) the twin towers fell in 2001. [During my own research, I was amazed to find not one dictionary, encyclopedia, scholar, nor historians that ascribes to 607 BCE as the fall of Jerusalem/Nebuchadnezzar’s 19 th . In addition, all un-earthed legal, dairies and astronomical tablets dug up from Mesotopia (housed in the British Museum) all point and suggest a date other than 607 BCE. Since you believe the Watchtower Organization is the sole channel of God, you also must believe that the fall of Jerusalem occurred in 607 BCE. You unfortunately have the burden of defending the assertion that the Fall of Jerusalem occurred in 607 aside from what all historical facts reveal. [You are very reluctant to speak on this matter and have totally avoided addressing this being my first main concern/issue I posed to you. I’ve been requesting from you a Neo-Babylonian King’s List. It has actually been 1 ½ years and I still have yet to receive information to support this claim from you or from anyone else I’ve ever asked of this information.] A closed mind may also indicate a selfish desire to retain certain advantages that an open mind might cause us to lose. In some countries racial groups have been suppressed so that other groups can enjoy certain privileges. Unwilling to share these with others, the privileged groups retreat to the prejudicial position of “we are better than you,” closing their minds to all evidence to the contrary. [Our example: All the Jehovah’s Witness I have ever met are very sincere people and have a total desire to be associated with the Watchtower Organization. In order for them to keep this desire, they must put faith in 607 BCE being the correct year of the Fall of Jerusalem regardless if its false. By taking time to gain knowledge about the event and historical facts concerning the fall of Jerusalem from sources outside publications like the public library, browsing through the artifacts from the Neo-Babylonian time on the British Museum website, and composing a Kings List a more complete conclusion can be made. After learning of all the tons of information available to them concerning this topic, they will presented with a very crucial decision. Some ppl believe the world is flat until they are shown evidence to suggest otherwise. As such, truth is if 607 BCE is shown incorrect and evidence is shown to suggest 587 BCE, by default the notion that Jesus’ presence beginning in 1914 (would be 1934, if fall occurred in 587)along with notion of Him picking a “Faithful and Discreet Slave” in 1919 (would have occurred in 1939, if fall occurred in 587) evaporates. The Organization would be considered presenting a false message of a invisible Kingdom presence and would be guilty by God of self-proclaimed authority not given to them 5 years later by Jesus Christ after an "inspection of all religions". This doctrine alone is what makes you and me different. All my questions revolve around the prime subject.There is alot of information in the books I own personally that I would like to share with you which all starts and end with one question. . .

    Is the Watchtower really who they claim to be?

    Are you open -minded enough to consider the possibility that you may not be? It will pay to find out. Whereas an open mind can serve to your advantage, a closed one will almost certainly serve to your detriment. .

    An Open or a Closed Mind —Which Do You Have?

    [All of of your actions have caused me to believe that you have a closed mind . You are not receptive at all to new information or ideas unless it is in strict agreement with the Watchtower Organization teachings. You have shown me that you do not possess what is required to examine and evaluate any information without a biased attitude towards me or without questioning the motives of why it was presented.]

    [I reluctantly have drawn a conclusion recently in regard to you and I. No matter how hard I try I never can force you as my wife to love, accept, respect, cherish and honor me as your as your husband. Likewise, I can't force you to have an open - mind towards wanting to understanding my beliefs, issues nor my concerns. If those desires aren't there to begin with it wont surface unless you partition before God from the desires of your own heart. Only by doing that will He unlock the door located in your mind . I’ve tried everything to establish a single accord between you and I. Bible readings before work and family discussion night were organized in attempt to close the spiritual gap between us regardless of our differences. Ive tried to partake in understanding your beliefs by attending the Kingdom Hall with you & alone, buying literature/publications and met with elders. All at the same time not stopping you from attending your meetings, accepting the changes you made,conformed and allowed you to make your own decisions regardless if i agreed with them or not. There is no more that I can do to help you without you first trying to help yourself. I will love, encourage, be patient and most importantly pray for you(@ NEW CHAPER SMH, I persucuted her)and our marriage to be successful. I'm putting things in God's hands now because there is no more I can do or say.I believe He is a still a miracle worker.]

    [If I am wrong about my assertions of your mind being closed, please show me. To start off, provide me with a Kings List of the Neo-Babylonian Empire. Show me which years they reigned and how long did each reign. Show me reference support and where you retrieved the material in support of 607 BCE as well as information supporting 587 BCE as the fall of Babylon. I want you to be able to explain to me what you find and be knowledgeable of the information your presenting to me and be able to answer my question concerning the information you share with me. . .

    With Love

    I still have yet to recieve a king's list. She told me if I want a king's list, . . to go talk to the brothers because she won't provide me with one (it makes her sick and can't focus). I always make the point that i'm not married to the brothers, im married to you.Yet, somehow she makes time for EVERYTHING else except doing the things I ask. I honestly believe that if I were able to get all of my issues and concerns out on the table, . . I wouldnt be so upset about what she decided to do. Its the point that she refuses to respect and acknowledge me and just wants me to accept EVERYTHING she dishes out claiming God as the base of her choices creates frustration bc God says to honor and respct your husband which she doesn't. I know my email might have been more motivation to push on into the Org. but I didn't purpose for it to be that. Just simply ironed out the real issue for her to stop avoiding and address it head on. Guess her doing that is taking the dip. . . SMH

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    What I meant was the Daniel prophecy. They are on stage and with a straight face say: "we were wrong about the interpretation of this prophetic image. If you compare the Daniel book (and they list a few other pubs) with the image on the invitation, you will see the difference". "the clay are the divisive elements in the Anglo-American World Power that make it lose it's strength such as the Labor Union movements and the Civil Rights movement" "But how about the toes of the image. APPARENTLY the 10 toes don't mean anything". "You can fix homosexuality by becoming a Jehovah's Witness"

    Also, take note that they now say the bible message from Jesus (such as the parable of the small road and the tight door being hard to enter the Kingdom) and the letters from Paul, John and Jude is for Annointed only (they repeat it a couple of times). By extension the other sheep are included in the kingdom to help the preaching work and they can learn from it. The actual Kingdom of God is ONLY of benefit for the annointed, the other sheep are blessed by the kingdom only if they follow the direction of the annointed and spirit-directed organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and preach with them.

    She will dedicate herself to the organization, not to Jesus or God's Kingdom.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Looks to me as if you gave her many opportunities to either win you over to her way of thinking but she refused to even try. If you still want to make an effort to save the marriage - though it may be futile - perhaps you could lay the bloodguilt angle on her by telling her you feel like she doesn't even care about saving you from Armageddon and that you feel like rather than find the answers to your spiritual questions she hopes Jehovah destroys you so that she can marry someone who is already a JW.

    Otherwise, and if you don't have any kids yet, she's probably already gone.

    This is a cult that is PROUD to break up families because they think it fulfills prophetic scripture.

    Good luck, but we call it The Borg for good reason. Many times "resistance is futile."

  • Ding

    Very sorry to hear about your marriage collapse.

  • DesirousOfChange

    This doesn't have to destroy your marriage. There are many successful "mixed" marriages in the congregations. Often in fact, the unbeliever is won over by the kindnesses of those in the congregation. These people are kind and lovng (many here would add "conditional" kindness or love). You can remain an "outsider" or "unbeliever" and as long as you are not seen as making an effort to "discourage" or "apostacize" your wife (or others), they will welcome you into their social life (somewhat) in an effort to convince and convert you. At the same time, they will encourage your wife to be a good wife, subjective, etc etc and certainly discourage any immorality. However, they will expect her/encourage her not to miss the 2 weekly meetings and to spend some time in the field ministry, which could easily be during times you are busy or working. (Not much different than if she was involved in any other religion.) The biggest issue will be if you want your children raised according to JW guidelines, which discourages higher education in lieu of door-knocking as a full-time JDub usually at the cost of getting ahead in life financially. And it opens your family to the divisive policy of shunning (disfellowshipping) should one of your family members screw up after being baptized. This policy has really destroyed some family relationships. It is bad. It is a control tool.

    Your best way to proceed may be to be the nice guy who is curious about learning more, and use that as an opportunity to "ask questions". You will not be able to make direct use of "apostate" websites in your discussions, but rather it would be better to have such information provided by someone at work etc. You will thus be "innocent" of seeking out apostate information. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if someone at work or elsewhere among your friends has looked into it for their own benefit as well.

  • punkofnice

    Sorry to hear she is giving her life to a cold money grubbing corporation that pretends to be a religion!!

    I hope that once the 'love boming' stops and all things level out she'll realise what a cold life the JW's offer. Guilt, fear and phobia.

    Continue to show unconditional love - this is a luxury the JW's DO NOT have. One false move, one mistake and they get reported to the over-sneers and gossipped about.

    You have my sympathy as my wife is even MORE zealous now I've left. I doubt she'll leave as she'd lose most of her 'loving' family.

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