MS shuns Witness parents

by EmptyInside 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • EmptyInside
    EmptyInside

    aristeas,I appreciate your comment. Yes,I realize it's not just a JW thing. But,most of the reasons for his "discipline" was the meetings. His father was inactive for a period of time too.

    But,my point in all this is,it just made me angry that everyone seems to side with the parents. And maybe one day,he will work everything out,but no one really can understand the full effect his upbringing had on him.

    I know too,that holding pain and anger inside can only harm one physically and emotionally. So,I hope he can work through it all.

  • mummatron
    mummatron

    Here is an excellent quote from Dr Sears (http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/spanking/10-reasons-not-hit-your-child) that helped me to see that the WTBTS are making excuses to condone smacking (and worse). Eph 6:4 and Col 3:21, which I've highlighted below would be good scriptures to quote to anyone at the KH who speaks judgementally about it.

    HITTING IS ACTUALLY NOT BIBLICAL

    Don't use the Bible as an excuse to spank. There is confusion in the ranks of people of Judeo-Christian heritage who, seeking help from the Bible in their effort to raise godly children, believe that God commands them to spank. They take "spare the rod and spoil the child" seriously and fear that if they don't spank, they will commit the sin of losing control of their child. In our counseling experience, we find that these people are devoted parents who love God and love their children, but they misunderstand the concept of the rod.

    Rod verses - what they really mean. The following are the biblical verseswhich have caused the greatest confusion:

    "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him." (Prov. 22:15)

    "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." (Prov. 13:24)

    "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death." (Prov. 23:13-14)

    "The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to itself disgraces his mother." (Prov. 29:15)

    At first glance these verses may sound pro-spanking. But you might consider a different interpretation of these teachings. "Rod" (shebet) means different things in different parts of the Bible. The Hebrew dictionary gives this word various meanings: a stick (for punishment, writing, fighting, ruling, walking, etc.). While the rod could be used for hitting, it was more frequently used for guiding wandering sheep. Shepherds didn't use the rod to beat their sheep - and children are certainly more valuable than sheep. As shepherd-author Philip Keller teaches so well in A Shepherd Looks At Psalm 23, the shepherd's rod was used to fight off prey and the staff was used to gently guide sheep along the right path. ("Your rod and your staff, they comfort me." – Psalm 23:4).

    Jewish families we've interviewed, who carefully follow dietary and lifestyle guidelines in the Scripture, do not practice "rod correction" with their children because they do not follow that interpretation of the text.

    The book of Proverbs is one of poetry. It is logical that the writer would have used a well-known tool to form an image of authority. We believe that this is the point that God makes about the rod in the Bible – parents take charge of your children. When you re-read the "rod verses," use the concept of parental authority when you come to the word "rod," rather than the concept of beating or spanking. It rings true in every instance.

    While Christians and Jews believe that the Old Testament is the inspired word of God, it is also a historical text that has been interpreted in many ways over the centuries, sometimes incorrectly in order to support the beliefs of the times. These "rod" verses have been burdened with interpretations about corporal punishment that support human ideas. Other parts of the Bible, especially the New Testament, suggest that respect, authority, and tenderness should be the prevailing attitudes toward children among people of faith.

    In the New Testament, Christ modified the traditional eye-for-an-eye system of justice with His turn-the-other-cheek approach. Christ preached gentleness, love, and understanding, and seemed against any harsh use of the rod, as stated by Paul in 1 Cor. 4:21: "Shall I come to you with the whip (rod), or in love and with a gentle spirit?" Paul went on to teach fathers about the importance of not provoking anger in their children (which is what spanking usually does): "Fathers, do not exasperate your children" (Eph. 6:4), and "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will be discouraged" (Col. 3:21).

    In our opinion, nowhere in the Bible does it say you must spank your child to be a godly parent.

    Hitting anyone does not show respect. I am not at all suprised that this MS has lost respect for his parents after the disrespect they've shown him over the years.

    Positive discipline is an overarching philosophy that helps a child develop a conscience guided by his own internal discipline and compassion for others. Positive discipline is rooted in a secure, trusting, connected relationship between parent and child. Discipline that is empathetic, loving and respectful strengthens that the connection between parent and child, while harsh or overly-punitive discipline weakens the connection. Remember that the ultimate goal of discipline is to help children develop self-control and self-discipline.http://naturalparentsnetwork.com/practice-positive-discipline/

    How on earth can beating your child help your child to cultivate any of the fruits of the spirit?

    I'm with the MS on this one. I was beaten as a JW kid, sometimes at the KH - smacked at the back of the hall, taken outside and smacked (bearing I mind I'd have my dress lifted up so my father could inflict sufficient pain on the backs of my legs and my buttocks to teach me a lesson), or sometimes with a rolled up WT or a Bible across the knuckles whilst seated in full view of the cong! I learned from a very young age to sit very still and not attract any attention to myself. Outwardly I looked well-behaved, but the reality was that I'd literally been beaten into submission and quickly lost my normal, childish exuberance and as a result I'm quite stunted socially as an adult because people think I'm aloof. When I got out at 19, I spent several years feeling a lot of anger about my upbringing. My father has apologised but it took my parents' compassionate actions when I was going through a messy divorce from a violent husband (repercussions of the beatings and the cult mentality meant I put up with severe beatings from him for 6 years) for them to finally earn my respect.

  • talesin
    talesin

    aristeas ....

    I would not reply in this way, but I do not like to be told to WAKE UP,,, why don't YOU wake up?

    you said : don't judge the victim!

    So, parents who beat a helpless toddler with a belt are victims? No,, in my country, they are CRIMINALS.

    Oxford's description of HONOUR:

    verb

    [with object] 1 regard with great respect: Joyce has now learned to honour her father's memory

    No, I do NOT have to respect anyone who beats helpless little children.

    tal

  • blondie
    blondie

    I wonder if his parents feel they were wrong to have beaten him then and have apologized sincerely? I can see his not wanting to leave his own children in their care as well.

    The WTS teaches that without repentance there is no forgiveness.

  • jamiebowers
    jamiebowers
    because children that were abused have more of a tendency to abuse their children.

    This is simply not true. Most abusers were abused, but most of the abused become protectors.

    But, my point in all this is, it just made me angry that everyone seems to side with the parents. And maybe one day,he will work everything out,but no one really can understand the full effect his upbringing had on him.

    It's not surprising that the jws are siding with the parents. After all, the parents only did what the Watchtower encouraged. The son is using a penalty that the organization reserves for sinners and vile apostates. Things are always ass backwards with this cult. Battered women are encouraged to be better wives, and molested children are required to produce two witnesses to one of the filthiest, most secretive crimes on the planet, while the wife beaters and child molestors are held in the highest esteem.

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    What a sad story. I don't blame the guy from wanting to protect his kids from his abusive parents.

    I don't think it's for anyone to judge him for this, because we don't know what went on behind closed doors. The mental and emotional scars are obviously still there for him.

  • TotallyADD
    TotallyADD

    I found all of this hard to read. Abusive parents and especially ones in the JW cult puts abuse on a another level. I know. The so called JW friends will get in the way of your peace and getting help for yourself and your parents. JW hold tight to the honor your parents to the nth degree. So to them this person is the bad guy instead of looking at what did his parents did to him. They all feel a disturbance in the JWJ force this causes them to feel uncomfortable. So they want a quick fix. In cases like this there is no quick fix. This thinking wait on Jehovah is just a lazy way of now accepting responsiblity for their actions. Leave the guy alone and don't judge him to harshly. His emotional scars run deep and this is probably the only way he knows how to deal with it. Another sad story from the JW cult. Totally ADD

  • DesirousOfChange
  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    They had better start earning it. It will take yrs.

    This is a major problem in the Borg and in many high control organizations. Respect is demanded, not earned. Forgiveness is demanded, not earned. Donations are demanded, not earned. Obedience is demanded, not earned.

    I wouldn't let my child anywhere near people who beat up children. So what if they're my gene donors? When you abuse a person for 15 or so years you haven't earned a damn thing from me but scorn. I'm lucky my parents weren't really beaters and my siblings were always in much more trouble than me, the good little JW boy. But this guy has every right to avoid association with his abusers, and he can base it on scripture:

    Galatians 5:20 includes people prone to "fits of anger" as not inheriting God's Kingdom.

    Psalms 11:5 says anyone loving violence, Jehovah hates.

    Wrath and anger are repeatedly equated with the old personality and men prone to anger aren't qualified to serve in positions of authority in the congregations.

    So even by JDub standards this guy's parents are tools and losers.

  • dgp
    dgp

    Empty Inside wrote:

    That is why other Witnesses are upset with him. They feel he should forgive and forget and let his parents see his kids.

    The point of my thread was simply to suggest that, in this forum at least, we give the word "shunning" the meaning the Watchtower gives to it. This, because we need to be clear about what we mean in each case, so a clear discussion can follow. In this sense, the ministerial servant in question is not shunning his parents.

    Incidentally, I think shunning (in the Watchtower sense) is just wrong and one of the ways this organization controls its followers. I even think it should be forbidden by law. I don't think religious authorities have a right to crush their own.

    Now, incidentally, Broken Promises just gave one perfectly valid reason for this man not to want to talk to his parents:

    I don't blame the guy from wanting to protect his kids from his abusive parents.

    I don't think it's for anyone to judge him for this, because we don't know what went on behind closed doors. The mental and emotional scars are obviously still there for him.

    Exactly. We don't know what happened, so let's not assume the guy is doing the wrong thing.

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