Lies about Suicides in Congregations

by EXMS 33 Replies latest jw experiences

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  EXMS

  Have you ever noticed what the elders say when a depressed person commits suicide?

  I unfortunately knew of two people in my area, one a guy about my age, the other was in his mid 40's that commited suicide. Both times, at their memorials, the elders from stage said that they were home alone and was cleaning their hand gun/ rifle when it accidently fired and killed them. Do they say that every where or was this just the Portland, Oregon mentality? Any body who knows anything about gun cleaning knows that it can't possibly "accidently" go off in the midst of cleaning it, as it's generally in pieces and there for sure is no bullets in the chamber. And second, how does a rifle accidently go off while cleaning a .338 hunting rifle and the bullet strike his head? Maybe Kurt Cobain was just cleaning his weapon too...

  Why are they so afraid to say, they were depressed at decided to end their life? Possibly saving face? Saying that they will be resurrected, because as we all know, if you kill yourself you won't be resurrected unless there are extinuating circumstances.
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  Alfred

  EXMS... Did I miss something here? When did the WT start allowing brothers to own fire arms?
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  talesin

  if you kill yourself you won't be resurrected unless there are extinuating circumstances.

  I didn't know that. I know the RCs believe suicides don't go to heaven.

  And you're right, 'cleaning his gun'. pffft! IMpossible. Better to talk about it,,, and honour their journey, as a lot of suffering has to take place before that final step. Maybe if we talked about stuff more, and had compassion and empathy for others' pain, there would be less suicides.

  My fellow pioneer/friend suicided years ago (hung himself), and it was covered up pretty good. No one ever spoke of it. I wonder if they consider being young, gay and JW extenuating circumstances?

  It's not just true of the JWs, although I'm sure it is to save face. After all, admitting someone was that depressed in Jeh's org would not be acceptable.

  Let me see, six years ago April 1, my friend suicided, and the November before, another friend hung herself. The November obituary read "died at home". She was from a prominent family, and her suicide was not discussed (I just knew because, well, close friend and all). The April one, well, they told everyone he had a heart attack. Even at the funeral, they made a big deal out of letting everyone know he died of natural causes. BUT, he had told me the previous year that if he got screwed on his new business, he was going to suicide with his samurai sword on April 1st. So, at the funeral, I asked his best friend if it was suicide, and yup, he confirmed my suspicions. I felt so guilty! Never told anyone what I knew. I had been sick, out of touch, and didn't know he lost his business. Had my surgery March 30, all wrapped up in my own self,, he died 2 days later. :(

  It's a topic that needs discussion. Thanks for raising it.

  tal
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  talesin

  Alfred - my family has always hunted, still does. They are big-time JWs. My father has about 6 or 7 guns, including a handgun. Maybe it's a local thing? Other JWs I know in other parts of Canada hunt as well.

  t
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  dissed

  We had a very good friend, a longtime Pioneer who killed herself, by intentional drug overdose, after she committed adultery with a Bible study. She left a husband and a little baby. In her suicide note, she said she couldn't face a judicial committee and the shame that came with it.
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  dissed

  Alfred - We were allowed to have hunting rifles at WT Farms.
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  TD

  I could be wrong, but believe the most thorough treatment of the subject of suicide and resurrection in recent years was in the September 8 1990 Awake! "The Bible's Viewpoint: Suicides--A Resurrection?"

  While still labeling suicide as "self murder," the viewpoint expressed was that "Only God can fully understand the role of mental sickness, extreme stress, even genetic defects in a "suicidal crises".." Friends and family of a suicide victim could rightly hope for a future ressurrection.
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  Band on the Run

  Is it anyone's business how the person died, outside of immediate people. What extentuating circumstances could there be? Would the Witnesses say those in the WTC who leaped out of the window to avoid flames were suicides and can't be resurrected.

  Depressive suicide is usually not rational. Illness precludes impulse control. It is very sad.

  Does the Catholic Church still teach this? Depression is widely recognized now. Altho, I've read that there isn't a good correlation between depression and suicide. The family is already stressed out. I understand the people who know may feel a need to discuss it but does it have to be formal? I would think people could have private converstations, visit a therapist's office en masse, or go for coffee.

  I'm suprised that an elder is being nice enough to cover it up publicly. When AIDS was rampant in NY, the NY Times had about four or five notable obituaries a day of a young person dying in their twenties or thirties from a long illness. Everyone knew. Someone wrote about the practice. If it gives comfort, what is wrong?

  Maybe if the Witnesses stopped knocking on stranger's door and took care of their own, there would be fewer suicides. I was very ill with a terrible physical illness for a long time. Many times I saw deeply depressed patients. It is sad that people take their lives when two weeks on antidepressants people smile again. I don't think this suicide is rational, though.
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  WontLeave

  When did the WT start allowing brothers to own fire arms?

  The congregations are allowed the latitude to be bigger control freaks than the Watchtower requires them to be. There are officially still some "conscience matters" - like hunting, but the elders are perfectly free to start throwing the 'stumble' word around and forbid things that aren't forbidden. Then, if you don't obey them on this supposed conscience matter, you're not "submitting to those taking the lead" and then you get into more trouble.

  Ultimately, you can be marked, reproved, or DFed over "conscience matters" and the Society won't bat an eyelash. Take it from someone with first-hand experience with this: If you write to Patterson, it will be ignored. If you call them, you'll be blown off. Your complaint will go into your file at the Hall and the elders who totally violated documented procedure will now know you went over their heads and take it very personally.
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  Broken Promises

  Maybe if the Witnesses stopped knocking on stranger's door and took care of their own, there would be fewer suicides.

  Not just to prevent suicides, but it should be just as important as knocking on doors of people who aren't home.

  Showing Christian love should be first and foremost for JW congregations. Make a note of elderly ones who no longer get to the meetings, seek them out and see what they need. Is someone sick? Visit them or see what assistance they need. Is there a mother with many children, perhaps an unruly teenager? Find someone who can help mentor the teenager while helping the hassled mother with housework.

  I digress. But if there was more genuine love shown in the congs, there would be less depression and hopefully, less suicides.