Aug.1 WT: God is not omnipresent, independent of physical universe, uses probes

unshackled

Was checking out the Aug. 1 public Watchtower and the Our Readers Ask... is Does God dwell in one place? Think there was something in an Awake a few months back about this. But is the most they have expanded on it?

I'll post the page but here are a few weird quotes (bolding mine):

"These verses clearly indicate that Jehovah
God dwells, not everywhere, but only in heaven.
Of course, “the heavens” mentioned in
these passages does not refer to the atmosphere
surrounding the earth nor to the vast expanse
of outer space. The physical heavens cannot
contain the Creator of the universe. (1 Kings 8:27)
The Bible tells us that “God is a Spirit.”
(John 4:24) He resides in the spiritual heavens,
a realm independent of the physical universe.
—1 Corinthians 15:44."

A realm independent of the physical universe? Is this a common god belief outside of JW world? I checked out Corinthians 15:44....seems like a real stretch to deduce this from that scripture. But then again, I'm no bible wizard.

Then this…

"By means of his holy spirit,
God can see anything and exert his power anywhere,
without literally going there or dwelling
there. To illustrate: In recent years scientists
have been able to examine soil on the planet
Mars, millions of miles (kilometers) from Earth.
How? Not by traveling there personally, but by
studying detailed photos and other information
transmitted back to Earth by probes sent to Mars’ surface."

First, strange analogy. God has "probes"? And we've been blaming aliens on the probing. Also, they mention that God doesn't need to be there literally. Is that to state that he can be somewhere literally? Any other believers think God zips around the universe?

Next paragraph…

"Likewise, Jehovah God does not have to be
present everywhere, or omnipresent, in order to
perceive what is happening at any point in the universe."

So if God can "perceive what is happening at any point in the universe" wouldn't that be the same as being omnipresent? What difference does it make? And why is there so many damn syllables in the word phonetically?

unshackled

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

As much as Satan is described as knowing every intimate detail and desire of every person, Satan must be omnipresent. I think Satan uses probes too. Statistics indicate that Satan is a lot better at intimate probing than Jehovah is.

unshackled

As much as Satan is described as knowing every intimate detail and desire of every person, Satan must be omnipresent.

Good point, Billy. We had to watch our thoughts and actions at all times because Satan and his demons we're ready to pounce. I remember asking an elder if Satan could read our minds. He said no BUT he is sooo clever that he can know what's on our mind by our body language. Okaaaay...so same thing then?

Strange they go out of their way to say God is not everywhere at once, but then say he basically sees anything and everything at once. What's the diff and why would it matter? Perhaps they're just grasping at sounding "in the know".

VM44

OK, so God's Holy Spirit is omnipresent, continously reporting back to Jehovah everything that is happening in the universe!

unshackled

That's pretty much it VM44. In which case does that make Jehovah a lazy ass..."dwelling in his fixed location" while he sends his holy spirit out to do all the work?

GOrwell

If they admit God is omnipresent, and that is an acknowledged attribute of God, then Jesus would naturally be God, as he said @ Matt 18:20:

"For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Thus, say God isn't omnipresent, and the subsequent Trinitarian problem is solved.

Satanus

'He resides in the spiritual heavens,
a realm independent of the physical universe.'

He's really, really, really far away. Those angelic probes gotta travel faster than light, much faster. You'ld think that they must get tired sometimes, coming to the planet and then going back to yhwh. Wonder what their top speed is?

'perceive what is happening at any point in the universe."'

We percieve by means of light that travels to us, to our eyes. They have compared his spirit to fingers. Wonder if they would say that he uses his spirit to percieve at such great, almost infinite distance? That would mean that he is practically omnipresent on this dirt ball, omnipresent, from our point of view. Notice how they do not explain in detail how he percives things here.

At any rate, it seems really stupid for him to be so far away from the earth, the place where supposedly the most important contest in existence is taking place, the place where jesus is, where his org is.

Scientists have confirmed that the universe is accelerating in its expansion. Maybe god is flying away from it, so he doesn't get sucked up by it. Heehee.

S

jwfacts

You can tell the Watchtower writers are not scholars, as they do not think through the things they write. This is shallow reasoning that sidesteps any really question about what omnipresence is.

In a similar article in April the Watchtower writes that since God allows free will, he did not know Adam and Eve would sin. That may make sense in isolation, but it raises the question how then is our free will affected by God making prophecies through the Bible. Luckily JWs are not allowed to raise such questions (or at least shelve any such questions.)

jean-luc picard

I think its a bit like trying to describe "seeing" to a blind man. You can't. He may even say, in the end , that he thinks he understands, but he doesn't really. He just has his concept of what "seeing" might be.

We cannot understand what spirit is. We compare it to things we know, with analogies of probes etc. but are surely light years from the reality.

Aug.1 WT: God is not omnipresent, independent of physical universe, uses probes

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