FAITH, the biggest excuse for IGNORANCE.

by nicolaou 111 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  still thinking

  Occam's Razor

  The principle is often inaccurately summarized as "the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one." This summary is misleading, however, since the principle is actually focused on shifting the burden of proof in discussions. [ 3 ] That is, the razor is a principle that suggests we should tend towards simpler theories (see justifications section below) until we can trade some simplicity for increased explanatory power. Contrary to the popular summary, the simplest available theory is sometimes a less accurate explanation. Philosophers also add that the exact meaning of "simplest" can be nuanced in the first place. [ 4 ]
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  jgnat

  I'll accept your correction, still thinking. In gross behavior, the simplest explanation is most likely true. When explaining perplexing events to my son, I tell thim that a few guys hollering and jostling down the street are not likely talking about him.
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  still thinking

  Jgnat I was not referring to your management of your sons behaviour. To me that is a completely different issue. One that I am sure with your love, care and understanding manage very well.
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  jgnat

  I know, still thinking, and I took no offence. I've used the simplified principle to get through to my son, and it is working.

  I've seen some of the explanations for alernate explanations of the ice ages, world wide flooding (i.e. water mantle), extraordinary ages achieved by bible patriarchs, etc. etc., and the chief problem with the explanations is that they do backflips, pretzels, and loop-de-loops to stay in the air. Pop the air in their theory, and they come back with something even more complex. Sure sign that there is no attempt to come to the truth. The explanations are simply bolster their belief (infallible God= infallible bible).
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  ziddina

  "Perfect example: did Issaiah say the Earth was a flat circle or a sphere? If you said "sphere," congratulations! It's only true because you want it to be. At the very most, all you are saying is that it is possibly accurate. It COULD be a sphere. But it could also be a flat circle. The only thing leading you to the former conclusion is your already established idea that the Bible is correct. Which is identical to the very notion you are trying to prove. It's circular and based on assumptions. ..."

  Good point, Pika Chu...

  As a matter of fact, Leolaia posted on that subject - she pointed out that the Hebrew word translated as "circle" actually has a meaning similar to 'plate' or 'platter' - in other words, the Hebrews believed in a FLAT EARTH, not a sphere...

  Zid
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  Maze

  http://www.atlassociety.org/religion_objectivism

  Objectivism regards reason as an absolute. It holds that all knowledge is based on the evidence of the senses. It holds that all beliefs, conclusions, and convictions must be established by logical methods of inquiry and tested by logical methods of verification. In short, it holds that the scientific approach applies to all areas of knowledge. Blind faith, by contrast, consists in belief not based on evidence, or based on such spurious forms of "evidence" as revelation and authority. Faith is essentially an arbitrary exercise of the mind, a willful credulity based on subjective emotions rather than objective evidence, a desire for certainty without the scrupulous cognitive effort required to achieve rational certainty. Faith cannot substitute for reason as a means of knowledge, nor can it supplement reason. Reason is incompatible with arbitrary procedures of any kind.

  God's spirit can bear witness on human consciousness for tangible evidence of God's existence.

  Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. For by means of this the men of old times had witness borne to them. Hebrews 11:1-2
  
  Apostates have grieved God's spirit and thus, have rejected God's existence.
  
  Also, do not be grieving God’s holy spirit, with which you have been sealed for a day of releasing by ransom. Ephesians 4:30
  
  http://niv.scripturetext.com/psalms/14.htm
  
  The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. Psalm 14:1
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  jgnat

  Interesting that Jesus admonished the Pharisees not to grieve God's spirit, after they accused his healing to be from the evil one. I take that to mean to take care in blaming evil when God is the cause. The Holy Spirit can be found in surprising places.
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  Maze

  Good point, Pika Chu...

  As a matter of fact, Leolaia posted on that subject - she pointed out that the Hebrew word translated as "circle" actually has a meaning similar to 'plate' or 'platter' - in other words, the Hebrews believed in a FLAT EARTH, not a sphere...

  Zid

  Maybe so, but this Hebrew was under divine inspiration.

  There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth... Isaiah 40:22
  
  There was no Hebrew word for sphere during the time period when Isaiah was written (778–732 B.C.E.). The closest in biblical/classical Hebrew is the word used for “ball” (dur) in Isaiah 22:18.
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  ziddina

  "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. Psalm 14:1..."

  Problem is, that particular 'god' didn't exist until around 3,500 - 4,000 years ago. Which is central to the question of whether "god" exists, and most people of faith strive mightily to ignore that factor.

  Jews, Christians, and Muslims - members of the three major MIDDLE-EASTERN religions of today - refer to "God" as everlasting, but this particular 'god' - or 'gods' - [of the talmud, bible and koran] doesn't show up in human literature until the last few millenia...

  And yet Middle-Eastern god worshippers co-opt ALL events that came BEFORE this 'god's' name appeared, as belonging to "him"...

  That is one bizarre disconnect from reality that has always amazed me. These Middle-Eastern god worshippers ALSO choose to IGNORE the facts that show that there were MANY deities worshipped LONG BEFORE this particular Middle-Eastern 'god' - 'gods' - was written into human history.

  If people really understood the origins - the EXTREMELY RECENT ORIGINS - of the Middle-Eastern gods that they're worshipping - and for that matter, the innately Middle-Eastern-male attitudes and behaviors incorporated into these Middle-Eastern god[s], most would drop such worship immediately.

  Zid
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  ziddina

  "There was no Hebrew word for sphere..."

  Gee, I wonder why...

  Realize this; if the Hebrews conceptualized the earth as ANYTHING other than a flat platter or plate, they could have created a new word or borrowed a word meaning "sphere" from a nearby civilization...

  And since they DID have a word that meant "ball", then IF they conceptualized the earth as being "ball-like" then they ALSO COULD HAVE USED THE WORD FOR BALL.

  Face it. The Hebrews had the same primitive, INACCURATE view of the earth's shape and nature as did the "heathen" nations around them...