Was the 1812 declaration of war on the British empire wrong

by Star tiger 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • Star tiger
    Star tiger

    Greetings,

    Why are the British always depicted as an evil empire, when in 1812 James Madison declared war, the British were defending Native American rights, and although the eventual ceasefire was signed in Gwent Belgium in 1814, and both sides declared victory the only losers were the original owners of the land, displaced onto reservations, the Native Americans, not much of that in Hollywood movies, I'm sorry if I'm being provocative, I'm just not getting many posters on any of my threads, lol!

    Star Tiger

  • talesin
    talesin

    Because that's the way the powers-that-be want to portray it.

    Think about all the movies pre-1980 or so, that portrayed aboriginal people (or Native Americans, not sure of the PC term atm) as brutal savages.

    How many folk on this board have said that the American Revolution was about fighting for freedom, when it was actually about ending "taxation without representation" (a la Boston Tea Party) - just a buncha rich guys that didn't want to pay their taxes to the Crown, not about individual's rights and freedoms.

    My best friend has BA w/Honours in AMerican History, and we were discussing this very subject last week. He said the only two times America has invaded a sovereign nation (before Iraq) were Canada and Vietnam. An interesting topic,,,, and hoping you get some rational discussion cause I would love to read more ....

    let's not forget that we (canada, albeit technically before confederation) burned your capital and *won* the war!

    t /

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Hi, Star Tiger.

    The newly-found nation was in expansion mode.

    Nothing - not even Big Bad England - was going to prevent this.

    It was during those times that the Alabama Territory was opened up for settlement.

    The Trail of Tears is a national disgrace.

    Oh, but I digress.

    Was the declaration of war wrong?

    Who's to say?

    England was doing a lot of provocative things: Impressing American sailors into the Royal Navy, arming Native Americans in their fight against White settlers, and seeking to monopolize the fur trade.

    This war has been aptly called the Second War for Independence.

    Syl

  • Star tiger
    Star tiger

    Hi,

    It's nice to get some informed discussion, The British empire has done some terrible and arrogant things, and I love the things America stands for, but we are always the bad guys in your movies, we took a tremendous hit from the Nazis, but through the commonwealth nations and especially America we prevailed, having said that if we had lost to the German war machine we all would have paid! If it were down to the GB we would have exterminated if we were still JW's, thanks for the comments!

    Star Tiger

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Actually talesin anybody that actually knows something about US History will tell you that the revolution was about being denied our rights as British citizens. If we weren't going to be treated as citizens then we refused to be treated as subjects.

    My best friend has BA w/Honours in AMerican History, and we were discussing this very subject last week. He said the only two times America has invaded a sovereign nation (before Iraq) were Canada and Vietnam.

    I take it doesn't take much to get a BA with Honors whereever your friend went to college. The following is from wikipedia.

    1801–1805 – First Barbary WarUSS George Washington and USS Philadelphia affairs result in actions against the Barbary pirates responsible. In the Eaton expedition, a few Marines and soldiers landed with United States Agent William Eaton to raise a force against Tripoli in an effort to free the crew of the Philadelphia. Tripoli declared war; the United States did not, although Congress authorized military action by statute. [ 1 ]

    1806 – Spanish Mexico – A platoon under Captain Zebulon Pike invaded Spanish territory at the headwaters of the Rio Grande on orders from GeneralJames Wilkinson. He was made prisoner without resistance at a fort he constructed in present-day Colorado, taken to Mexico, and later released after seizure of his papers. [RL30172]

    edited to add: The War of 1812 was a bad idea - we may have been right, impressment was terrible, but if the Brits hadn't been busy with Napoleon they would have handed us our heads. Some of the New England states very nearly suceeded when war was declared because it did so much damage to their economies.

    1806–10 – Gulf of Mexico. American gunboats operated from New Orleans against Spanish and French privateers off the Mississippi Delta, chiefly under Captain John Shaw and Master Commandant David Porter. [ 1 ]

    1810 – West Florida (Spanish territory). GovernorWilliam C.C. Claiborne of Louisiana, on orders of President James Madison, occupied with troops territory in dispute east of the Mississippi as far as the Pearl River, later the eastern boundary of Louisiana. He was authorized to seize as far east as the Perdido River. [RL30172]

    1812 – Amelia Island and other parts of east Florida, then under Spain. Temporary possession was authorized by President James Madison and by Congress, to prevent occupation by any other power; but possession was obtained by General George Mathews in so irregular a manner that his measures were disavowed by the President. [RL30172]

    1815 – Algiers. The Second Barbary War was declared against the United States by the Dey of Algiers of the Barbary states, an act not reciprocated by the United States. Congress did authorize a military expedition by statute. A large fleet under Captain Stephen Decatur attacked Algiers and obtained indemnities.[RL30172

    1815 – Tripoli. After securing an agreement from Algiers, Captain Decatur demonstrated with his squadron at Tunis and Tripoli, where he secured indemnities for offenses during the War of 1812. [RL30172]

    1822 – Cuba. United States naval forces suppressing piracy landed on the northwest coast of Cuba and burned a pirate station. [RL30172]

    1823 – Cuba. Brief landings in pursuit of pirates occurred April 8 near Escondido; April 16 near Cayo Blanco; July 11 at Siquapa Bay; July 21 at Cape Cruz; and October 23 at Camrioca. [RL30172]

    1824 – Cuba. In October the USS Porpoise landed bluejackets near Matanzas in pursuit of pirates. This was during the cruise authorized in 1822. [RL30172]

    1824 – Puerto Rico (Spanish territory). Commodore David Porter with a landing party attacked the town of Fajardo which had sheltered pirates and insulted American naval officers. He landed with 200 men in November and forced an apology. Commodore Porter was later court-martialed for overstepping his powers. [RL30172]

    1825 – Cuba. In March cooperating American and British forces landed at Sagua La Grande to capture pirates. [RL30172]

    1827 – Greece. In October and November landing parties hunted pirates on the Mediterranean islands of Argenteire, Myconos, and Andros. [RL30172]

    1833 – Argentina. October 31 to November 15. A force was sent ashore at Buenos Aires to protect the interests of the United States and other countries during an insurrection. [RL30172]

    1835–36 – Peru. December 10, 1835, to January 24, 1836, and August 31 to December 7, 1836. Marines protected American interests in Callao and Lima during an attempted revolution.[RL301

    This brings us up to the Mexican American War. There's more

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#1800.E2.80.931809

  • Simon
    Simon
    How many folk on this board have said that the American Revolution was about fighting for freedom, when it was actually about ending "taxation without representation" (a la Boston Tea Party) - just a buncha rich guys that didn't want to pay their taxes to the Crown, not about individual's rights and freedoms.

    Bzzzt: Wrong !

    The British actually *stopped* applying tax to their tea from East India thus undercutting the local producers who then rebelled against it.

    So yes, it was about taxation ... but not in the way that American historical propaganda suggests.

    Don't worry though, most of the British Empire history we were taught in school was self-promoting propaganda too!

    But it demonstrates the point: History is often written to suit someone's agenda. You have to look at the evidence and how it's interpreted and not just rely on 'accepted truth' because it's often lies.

  • Cagefighter
    Cagefighter

    The war of 1812, really?

  • TotallyADD
    TotallyADD

    Like all world powers and world powers to be, war is the only solution. After all war means We Are Right. The founding of the U.S. and it becoming a future world power started with slavery, drugs (tobacco) and genocide (navtive americans). I know that seems to be a harsh statement but the reality of it all is thats what happen. Was the 1812 declaration of war on the British empire wrong? We can read all the history books there are on the subject but if we did not live it and experience what was going on around those people of that time. Then we will never know the correct answer to that question. I do love learning history. We are what we are today by what happen many years ago. Good thread. Totally ADD

  • talesin
    talesin

    edited --- it's a good thread, don't wanna hijack it

  • talesin
    talesin

    Simon,

    Like I said, history is not my best subject. Even when I'm close, I don't quite get it right.

    see Jeff? there's a way to say things with tact and a bit of respect ................

    OY! some things never change

    t

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