Real Jehovah's Witnesses (djeggnog, StandFirm, etc), I'm trying to understand you.

by pirata 62 Replies latest jw friends

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  pirata

  I'm an active Jehovah's Witness. I've obviously lost my faith, that's why I don't feel bad posting here anymore. I'd probably be disfellowshipped as a division causing, teaching, apostate, faster than you can say "Ma′her-shal′al-hash-baz" (Isaiah 8:1), should it be found out that I was posting here and did not repent of the things I've said and stop participating in this forum. Offline, I keep my thoughts to myself and stick to the "official teachings/understandings" in service or with my brothers and sisters.

  @djeggnog, @StandFirm, @ 20571pnt428571, et al (Maze, I'm really not sure if you are a witness):

  The Kingdom Ministry articles over the past 10 years make it obvious to me that the Governing Body does not want Jehovah's Witness cowboys doing research outside Watchtower Society Publications, making their own websites, engaging in debates; certainly not without their approval. At least that is how I understand it and how the brothers and sisters that have made comments about such matters understand it

  Yet, you seem to be 100% believing Jehovah's Witnesses, confidence in the guidance and direction of the Organization and it's Governing Body, yet don't see a conflict with posting here or doing research outside of Watchtower Publications.

  I'm not saying this to criticise, rather, I think that it is necessary for the long term growth of Jehovah's Witnesses to directly address criticisms that can be easly found online. But instead the overall direction lately, at least from my impression, is to keep people away from apostate literature, and not address the objections.

  There has been NOTHING in print regarding 587 BCE for over 22 years (and the refutation was weak at best: "But if a Bible student uses those dates when calculating the fulfillment of prophecy, he will simply be confused." w89 3/15 pg.21 par.16). There has never been any refutation regarding the Watchtower's past NGO UN status (aside from the BOE letter which would require a witness to admit to an elder that they've been looking at or listening to apostate material to see it), no refutation of the Malawi/Mexico allegations made in Crisis of Conscience, etc. Refutations of these issues, which I'm sure have "saved" at least some Jehovah's Witnesses faith, have been in the form of the JW cowboys who set up their own websites or participate in online discussions as you do here.

  This is compounded by the fact that those have doubts tend to hide it at first. For me it was out of fear. I wanted to make sure that my worship and faith was not misguided, but I did not want to be labelled spiritually weak by going to the Elders to ask for help with these doubts. Was that stupid reasoning? Pride? Perhaps... but with all the printed warnings against looking at "apostate" information, I felt scared to discuss any of the issues I discovered with any of the Elders for fear of being charged with being disobedient to the Faithful slave. I have had Governing Body members come to give talks in my area, and had questions I wanted to ask them (mainly in regards to allegations made by apostates, and some of our interpretations of the Bible), but was afraid to for fear of being investigated after the fact.

  Did you go to the elders with any doubts or questions you may have had? Did you right to the Society? What was the response?

  By being a Spiritual Cowboy (ie posting here) do you think you're simply ahead of the game (ie. running ahead of the organization)? Immune to apostate reasoning (ie. think that your spiritually will not be affected by feeding, or at least dabbling with, the table of demons)? The publications equate looking at apostate information as not obeying Jehovah and not opposing the Devil. Why doesn't that bother you? I was deathly scared to join up and post here because I felt I was doing something wrong at first
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  wobble

  The GB's,writing dept and legal dept's fear of the Internet is not unfounded. For the same reason that they never used what was the biggest communication tool for decades, the Television, they dare not use the Internet, apart from the pathetic primitive site they have now.

  As soon as their weird world view and theology goes public, all can see how wacky and dangerous they are. Why do you think they now have the internal, not for the public, study edition of the Watchtower?

  Because to publicise their real thoughts and attitudes to people whose minds have not been manipulated by being inducted into the cult, is to put off most chances of converting anybody.
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  wobble

  The 144,000, as explained by WT, a "truth" ?

  HaHaHaHa !!!!!!!!
• 

  baltar447

  Your arguments about not using television just don't fly now. So how come we don't have JW TV now? Anyone can broadcast for free on the internet now and as long as you're not sacrificing kittens live or something crazy you can keep broadcasting all you like. Where is the Watchtower's youtube channel? For criminey's sake the Mormons have one. As long as the org is copying the Mormons (Google Family Home Evening, how do you explain THAT??) why not copy them here: http://www.youtube.com/user/MormonMessages

  Fact: You and others like you are "running ahead" of Jehovah's organization and that amounts to presumpteousness, pride and arrogance on your part. You think you know better thus you're proving that you think Jehovah's organization is slow to change. Is Jehovah's chariot slow? Not according to the bible. So you by your actions show that you believe that you have more insight than the "Faithful Slave".

  Here's the deal my friend: If this message were about saving lives and reaching every possible person, we'd be using every method possible. The fact that we don't betrays something VERY wrong with the leadership of this organization. If the money used to print all the endless tracts were instead used for actual advertising for say, conventions and the memorial, you would see a response so big it would knock your socks off. But why don't they do this? I do not know, it doesn't make a bit of sense to me at all. Except maybe this religion is more obsessed with their own branding and traditions of men (door to door work) than what actually might be effective. They need to be adressing the overhaul of some of their theology (chronology-587/607, blood, DF'ing, ,birthdays) yet they put it off hoping that the big A will come. I'm afraid they can't keep putting it off. Instead they have seen fit to invent crazy changes (overlapping generation, getting rid of book study, god awful new song book) that the flock is having a hard time stomaching. Yet the biggest thing the GB is doing now is lording it over everyone. This is evident in the endless articles lately that place the GB in the postion of master, NOT slave. It's the last straw for many of us. They ask us to trust them. TRUST them? I'm sorry but the bible I read says DON'T trust in MEN, trust in GOD. I'll stick to what the bible says thank you.
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  Witness My Fury

  I ALWAYS make the assumption they are counting time here.

  pnt (cant be bothered with the numbers sorry) above, must have spent literally HOURS on the posts above (unless maybe a fantasticly gifted touch typist)! I'm willing to bet that time will be reported. The internet is a field of ministry being the reasoning.
• 

  boyzone

  1pnt

  Sorry but I disagree. The internet is FEARED by the Governing Body, not embraced by it. This powerful tool of communication has been around for well over 20 years now and still the Witnesses refuse to use it to its full potential. In fact its a medium thats not encouraged outside of official WT control, and even the FDS don't exploit its advantages.

  If the end of this system is so very very close, and if the message that the Witnesses preach is life-giving and vital for salvation. If there is no other way of surviving armageddon except by joining JW's and if they are the ONLY ONES commissioned with this task - why on earth hasn't Jehovah told His representatives to use every and all mediums to shout the message from the rooftops? Don't they want to save lives? Instead the primary tool of reaching people remains the incredibly ineffective, time-consuming and labour-intensive method of door-knocking, with its high percentage of not-at-homes and ineffectual message delivery.

  Many millions now have internet access in their own homes or at work. In an official capacity the Society could use social networking sites, personal email, advertising space, blogs, and news sites to get the kingdom message out to the masses before its too late. Do they? No. Why? Because they are afraid of the internet. Afraid that this medium has too much accurate information about them that they can't control. For the sake of their survival as an Organisation, its much better if they kept a low profile on the internet and continue to discourage its full use by the brothers. That way the Society can avoid answering awkward questions by interested ones with the proclivity to google and continue to sanitise the flow of information to the brothers already under their control.

  The WT will never use the internet in the way that you hope 1pnt. It will be the death-knell for them as an organisation if they do. And survival of the Organisation is the absolute priority above everything else. Anything or anyone that might threaten that survival is labelled as evil and demonised accordingly.
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  bookmarked
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  The internet is FEARED by the Governing Body,

  That's because they've experienced nothing but problems from it.

  1) PORN -- Porn is so prevalent that they had to change the rules about porn. When MS & elders & HAD TO BE REMOVED for watching porn, they were dropping like flies! There would soon be no one to take charge in the congos but old men who were long past that desire. (Maybe dead men?)

  2) APOSTATES -- This should have been headlined as LIES & CHANGES, because that's what the problem really is. Apostates couldn't cause problems with the lies and changes if they did not really exist. For every "positive", upbuilding JW blurb on the internet, there are 1,000 which expose the WTS for the past ignorant &/or devious prophecies, statements, rules, lies, and changes.

  Just those two things far outweigh the benefit the average JW or potential JW gets from Mapquest or email (as far as WTS is concerned). It is a HUGE delima for them. To open it up to serious debate? They would lose. Hands down. No contest.
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  punkofnice

  I have to say, quite honestly that for a alleged 'JW' 1pnt's posts seem full of vitriol.

  Just 1 EG I saw: But the GB is not quite as unreasonable as you,

  Well if that isn't the cult propaganda technique of 'name calling' I don't know what is. It seems to me 1pnt may not be a genuine JW but someone having fun with threads. If I were 'newly interested' and came across 1pnt's comments I would certainly curtail my interest post haste.

  I think 1pnt is expert at 'unwitnessing'. Well done.
• 

  yknot

  20571pnt428571,

  I am curious are you a study, baptised publisher, born-in, raised or convert etc.

  What exactly is your association to the WTS?

  If you are a publisher of the good news of the kingdom......then what you posted above is a lot of self-justification but it wouldn't fly with Elders/CO. They would instruct you to stop all activities and properly apply all that energy to supporting the ministry locally...... that is why we have 'territories'!