can somebody shed some light on me?

by psychiatric 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • QuitWastingTIME

    Yeah, some of these posts like Sizemik and Satanus make good points (if I missed anyone else, sorry, I stopped reading <- in fact, my bad if I repeat a point). If you want to believe that God has somehow shaped your life, then it might be helpful to believe that God, the Universe, whatever, led you to the JWs so that you could make a speedy recovery. But perhaps not for you to STAY with the JWs. It's like some friends in your life: some are there to help you on your path, but that's it. Once their purpose has been fulfilled, it may not be beneficial to remain allied, especially if your goals might somehow be diametrically opposed. Case in point: you and the WT.

    However, if you leave the JWs and find yourself crawling back into the mud, well, then, you must realize you aren't strong enough to NOT be an individual, but may need some sort of controlling group, which is probably how you got into the troubles in the first place.

    Ponder over that, and good luck, Stranger.

  • psychiatric

    once again, thankyou all so much! It really is quite an amazing community here. amazed at the fast responses too!

    Yes, the jw's definetly did help me in my times of need and distress. and it really did help me out. i have never been on the straight and narrow so much in my life, i shocked even my family!

    But...even though it helped me out, i am in still in search of answers. and everywhere i look and people i talk to, all say the same as what my gut feeling tells me, which is that this is just another form of cult, which has probably become so huge into this massive organization because this Charles Taze Russel was such a rich man, he pumped his millions into making what it has become.

    For me, and how i see things in life, i had a serious wake up call when i stared death in the face several times. I am on my search for God, because it IS what i beileve. I DO beileve there is a higher being or higher life elsewhere.

    I simply want to know just like most people do, who do beileve, what really is the truth?

    there have been many things in this orgainzation that have defiently got facts right, and they certianly know their bible.

    But i do wonder at times, and this is MY struggle, if this really is right?

    Let me just outline a couple of examples, of MANY that i have. And this is one which could be quite common to some, who know their bible.

    Luke Chapter 23 : verse 43. (jesus was being nailed to a :S cross or stake, ill leave that part out for now for argument sake) and next to him also being nailed up was another man, a thief who says to jesus, "Remember me when you get into your kingdom"

    jesus goes on to say in the above verse : "Truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise"

    That is how it is scripted in the new world translation, (jw bible) but in other bibles, excluding the King James, jesus says: "Truly i tell you, Today you will be with me in paradise"

    That one comma which has been shifted makes the whole thing change about afterlife.

    As a brought up catholic, we beileve in going to Heaven when you die.

    The witnesses however do not, and use this scripture along with many others to justify that.

    Example 2: Ecclisiastes 9:5 "For the living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they have anymore wages, because the rememberance of them has been forgotten"

    Note Ecclesiastes 9:6 : Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion ANYMORE to TIME INDEFINITE in anything that has to be done under the sun.

    Now im not entirely bible savvy, but the way i keep seeing things is that example one about the comma, how do they know their bible is accurate? and that their bible is not the one that has been changed about?

    And example two clearly says that when you die, your DEAD.(ecc 9:5) and that you will never have anytime in this earth under this sun again, to time indefinite!

    Sorry if im getting ahead of myself here, and possibly boring you ^_^ but as i say, im simply in a bit of a spiritual Journey right now, my search for God.

    I guess ill just keep on looking and keep on asking, hey, thats what Jesus said to do right?(Matt 7:7,8)

    Anyway, i didnt quite expect this here at this site, i thought it was to be like the others almost like yahoo answers! Ask a question, get it answered, problem solved.

    I think ill be round for a while! :) Thankyou sincerely to all of you for everything so far! Its great to knwo i can air my opinions and not worry that the elders or any brother or sistr thinks im being opposing to it!

    Much love to you all

    Darren ^_^

  • jgnat

    Hey, Darren. Understanding a little of the history of the WTBTS will make all things clear. The original Bible Students (what the Witnesses were originally called) believed that 144,000 needed to be brought out of the nations for the heavenly reward, and Armageddon was expected in 1914 or so (a few shifts of dates as it didn't work out). They taught that Jesus had come invisibly some time before that.

    When the predictions did not come to pass, a short while after Russell passed away. Rutherford took over. For a while, membership dropped, but then it began increasing again. Problem was, there were then more Witnesses than there were supposed places in heaven. So Rutherford came up with the idea of "two hopes", and convinced many at his launching convention (1934) that those who had previously considered themselves "anointed" would prefer the earthly paradise instead.

    He averted doctrinal failure for years to come.

    It's still a problem. The remaining 8,000/9,000 anointed just won't die off.

    The doctrine of a second class of christians is very weak. A much better explanation of the "other sheep" is the gentile Christians of the day, with different concerns than Jewish converts to Christianity. There is nothing to connect these "other sheep" to a different hope, however. The gospels are ripe with descriptions of the heavenly reward.

  • psychiatric

    hello jgnat!

    Thankyou for the response! yes i have been taught by elders about these things. I havelooked online and done my research and it pretty much what you said! So i am in agreement with you.

    However the elders dismiss it and tell me its all peoples lies, and that the fact is Jesus was enthroned as king in 1914 (they have a calculation for that in the index of their bible teach book appendix i think page 208 somewhere near there) and thats how they come to the conclusion that Jesus was enthroned as king in 1914, and that satan was hurled down to earth..and they use things like world war 1 (1914!) to justify these teachings.

    I find it all strangely bizarre :S Seeing as the facts are written everywhere, just as you have rightly pointed out!

    Also, i didnt htink of it like that, and your right!! The remaining supposed 8000/9000 just simply wont die off and never will! lol !!!!!!!!!!!!

  • jgnat

    It is foolish to rely on calculations. By "proving" 1914, current Watchtower leaders are dismissing the careful calculations of their founder, Russell. Who has the truth? For comparison, check out our resident end-time specialist, OBVES:

    "But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36)

  • nugget


    Welcome to the board. I am glad that you have managed to overcome your drug problem it takes a great deal of determination to do this. The witnesses are very good at finding people when they are vulnerable and when you are low the message of paradise and perfection is very appealing the fact that they helped you turn your life around is commendable but whether you commit to this religion is a major step and you need to be fully aware of what the commitment involves before making it.

    What you have started to detect is the uncompromising nature of this religion. This is not a faith where you can pick and choose what you will or will not believe it is all or nothing. If a doctrine does not ring true you are told to wait on Jehovah and just accept it. You cannot question the witness point of view it is considered unacceptable and rebellious. You are also told to restrict research to books published by the watchtower society. These aspects are very controlling and worrying.

    Take time now to do research it is worthwhile in the long term. This religion calls itself the truth and therefore sets itself to abide by a higher standard. It will demand huge sacrifices of you to the extent that the organisation becomes your whole world. You need to be entirely sure that the religion deserves that level of devotion from you.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    You're starting to learn what some call "the truth about the truth" Darren.

    The best advice has already been given. Keep reading BOTH sides of the story. JW members are not allowed to read outside information critical of their organization. The claim is that it is all lies from Satan. But does it make sense that an almighty God would let the entire world lie and believe lies and sequester the truth in 7 men in a compound in Brooklyn, NY? Does Satan write every encyclopedia on the planet that disagrees with the Watchtower's manufactured 607BCE date for the destruction of Jerusalem? Couldn't God find a reputable publisher SOMEwhere other than the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?

    You mentioned the 1914 calculation. It is baloney at every single stage. There isn't one part of it that is true.

    The Watchtower society is doctrinally wrong in many many ways, despite WontLeave's assertions. But what's worse is the way they control their members. I cannot recommend the book Combatting Cult Mind Control highly enough. It is a MUST READ for ANYone investigating a religion like Jehovah's Witnesses. What is interesting is that it doesn't even mention JWs, but their techniques for influencing, manipulating, and coercing members and recruits into behaving the way the organization wants are apparent throughout.

    It is written by Steve Hassan and should be available at a good library. If not, has it for sale I think.

    Good luck. Stick around here. We're all glad to help. Also, make decent friends outside of JWs. Because when you leave, they'll shun you like the devil himself. You'll want friends.

  • cult classic
    cult classic

    Congratulations on recovering your health Darren.

    You are so very lucky to be able to question this cult before you commit. Keep asking questions.

  • psychiatric

    wow this is all so intriguing. I cant thankyou all enough. All of my doubts about this organization are not of my own. Im so glad there are like minded people. i dont want to admit this, but i almost feel brainwashed this last year of my life. Everytime i hear bad things about the organization i always kept saying its the devil, he doesnt want me to have a relationship with God.

    but this is what they have done to me i guess. I am very put off by this faith. There are certain aspects of it which i think are correct, but then i suppose thats how the worse lies are, when you mix truth with lies. And "nugget" i like how you put your words and thoughts across.

    I wouldlove to learn more about the bible and God himself, but i dont know where to go! Where is the right place! so many religions out there claiming to have it! and Jesus himself kept on saying to be on the guard of this, so as to not be misled.

    I will continue my search. And once again...thankyou all.... my suspicions on the WTS are just as i thought they are.

    I thought it right to come here off of my own initiative so as to hear it from people who have been there and done it so to speak, depite being told already by these elders to not go anywhere, any website, youtube etc, and to only stick to the official websites.

    I guess this confims exactly why! The truth is exposed as the real truth,falsity. and yet they dont know that, they beileve its satan doing all of this!

    Good grief!

  • Lozhasleft

    Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you found it - its a good place to be. Wont Leave's comment on this thread has had a profound effect on me, so much so I started a thread about it. There's some really lovely people on here I hope you stick around.

    Loz x

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