GLOBAL FLOOD . . . Did it Really Happen?

by sizemik 91 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    This question became an off-topic sidetrack in another thread. I thought it might be worth some debate so posted here . . .

    The debate is basically between mainstream geological understanding of the Earth's history and "Young Earth Creationism" In particular with how the evidence relates to the occurrence of a Global Flood in the recent past.

    A couple of points from the YEC website www.icr.org are raised as examples in order to kick things off . . .

    Under the heading . . . Much Evidence Exists for a Worldwide Flood . . . the webpage has this to say . . .

    Widespread marine strata and fossils in the earth's highest mountains and upon elevated continental plateaus imply that the ocean once covered the continents.

    A common form of "marine strata" is limestone , and it's age following formation can be readily and accurately determined. This is possible because limestone frequently contains fluctuations in density giving rise to cavitation . . . and what we call limestone caves. Within these caves are often found formations formed by the action of water seeping through it on account of it's porosity . . . what we know as "stalagtites" and "stalagmites". The age of these structures can be determined to within a narrow geological time frame through cross-section analysis, much in the way we determine the age of trees by counting the rings.

    Cross section analysis of these formations have determined some from the Archaean (3500 million years ago) through to the Tertiary (65 m.y.o) periods. Tectonic plate movement over such a period generates the uplift which places them above sea level. Parts of the British Isles have been shown to have been submerged and then uplifted up to twelve times throughout their geological history.

    The above quotation uses the word "imply". The implication being that because marine strata can be found at elevated levels the oceans must have been there at some time. This is a specious conclusion, somewhat naieve, and what 99.9% of the worlds serious Geologists regard as childish in it's overt simplicity. In other words . . . it's crap.

    As a second example . . . under the heading . . . Transcontinental Sedimentation and the Flood . . . the webpage has this to say . . .

    Geologist Andrew Snelling recently reported that the Coconino Sandstone, visible in the walls of the Grand Canyon, is part of a vast slab containing a colossal 10,000 cubic miles of cemented sand. 2 Where did all this sand come from? The first clue is that “cross beds within the Coconino Sandstone (and the Glorieta Sandstone of New Mexico and Texas) dip toward the south, indicating that the sand came from the north.” 3 The nearest northern source of similarly colored sand was likely from far away Utah, and must have been washed down by a widespread sheet of water.

    In the Biblical description of the worldwide flood . . . a huge volume of rain fell in a short time. Rainfall indeed facilitates the transportation of alluvial material including sand. However a cataclysm such as is described in the Bible would cause the movement of much larger aggregates than pure sand . . . and would form an aggregational mixture of sediment with aggregates as large as several tonnes. Sand strata and sandstones are formed by the gradual eroding of alluviums by a relatively small and regular exposure to rainfall over time . . . hence the aggregate is small and consistent in size (sand). To put it simply . . . could all that sand travel down from Utah in a massive "wash" without picking up a few rocks on the way? A catclysmic event could not produce such consistency . . . logic alone should tell us that. This is indeed the case with the Coconino Sandstone. The sloping nature of the strata is simply the result of the aforementioned tectonic uplift.

    Highly variagated aggregates would, in the case of the biblical flood be present in huge volumes . . . be widespread . . . and of identical age . . . but they are not.

    In conclusion . . . the "Geologists" who support the notion of a world-wide flood seek their evidence with this preconcieved premise or bias. The remainig 99.9% of scientist involved in this field, examine the evidence without such a premise. Indeed such a premise is occlusive to true geological science.

    "Scientists" who indulge themselves in this way are not taken seriously by the wider scientific community regardless of their religion or premise (bias).

  • Terra Incognita
    Terra Incognita

    GLOBAL FLOOD . . . Did it Really Happen?

    Nope.

    Further news at eleven.

  • Terra Incognita
    Terra Incognita

    Get this book. It's well worth the price.

    .

    It will give a lot of details on that and all other Creationist/I.D. issues.

    Science and Earth History: The Evolution/Creation Controversy

    http://www.amazon.com/Science-Earth-History-Evolution-Controversy/dp/1573927171/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304740817&sr=8-1#_

  • pseudoxristos
    pseudoxristos

    Sure it really happened.

    All life on earth was brought to the brink of extinction, stuck in a boat for a year, and then miraculously recovered on earth that had been entirely covered with flood waters for the same period of time.

    What’s not to believe?

    pseudo

  • sizemik
    sizemik

    Appreciate the comments . . . and rather than the wider issues of the Evolution/Creation debate . . . I was hoping some learned folks out there could add something to what the GEOLOGICAL evidence indicates . . . as they see it.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    My position is that science is at a disadvantage because they don't recognize that for a long time there were no seasons and no rain. Rain is a recent occurrence that occurred only after the Flood.

    One of the things that that convinces me there was a global flood is indirect evidence of the water canopy. For instance, under all the ice on Antartica is tropical plant life. The geologists want to tell us that Antartica was thus closer to the equator at one time and then drifted to the South Pole. That's one theory. But another is consistent with the water canopy which was over the earth and which made the entire earth a tropical environment, very much like a green house. When this was removed, then the poles froze. That's why we have tropical vegetation below all that ice.

    That's lends itself to belief in a global flood.

    In the meantime, in the above article it asks about the solid sand block, suggesting that in a flood situation, some rocks or bolders might have reasonably been washed away along with the sand. But if this was a desert area, like the Sahara, then we are talking 100% sand and no bolders or rocks. So ultimately this merely supports the displacement of a lot of desert sand. Further, heavy bolders, if present might have only moved a short distance whereas the sands would have been easily carried by currents. Everybody knows that sand and dirt can muddy water but not stones. Stones sink to the bottom. So interjecting what could have been doesn't count. If this sand level is 100% sand with no rocks, it just means the area it was transported from was a huge sand dune with no rocks,or at least no small rocks that might have been carried away.

    furthermore the original sand dune or desert might represent the long-time consistency over time of sand blowing and accumulating in one area, creating an area of pure, massive sand with no rocks or in an area with very large rocks and bolders only. So we're looking at a displaced desert area. So what?

    This is just another example of how doubters talk around the actual evidence.

    Just my opinion.

    I have decided to believe the Bible and if science is finding some misinterpretation of the geological evidence, then that's my presumption, that they are misreading the evidence, not that the Bible is not true. Plus we don't know all the details.

    LS

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    There have been many threads here on this topic.

    Here is a link to one with links to other articles on the topic : http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/179770/2/what-is-best-evidence-against-noahs-flood

    Another link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/13697/1/Is-the-Flood-Story-True

  • prophecor
    prophecor

    Just for kicks, there is a stiring discourse in the Aide To Bible Understanding publication under the "Deluge". They discuss at length how the world was once, all one tropical climate. The expanse as it's described in Genesis, no doubt gave the appearance of a completly different world. There was no such thing as rain before the flood and the expanse worked to filter out a lot of the poisonous light we experience on earth here now. UV Rays, Infra Red Waves and others that contribute to our capacity to get skin cancer as well as accelerated ageing. The Scriptures clearly define how imediately after the flood, mankind's life span gradually over time becomes drastically reduced. From being able to clock 900 years plus was nothing out of the ordinary. Then shortly thereafter, lifespans begin to decrease to lower and lower levels.

    There is evidence of a major catastrophic moment in history where Earth's atmosphere was radically changed, overnight. There are occuring in Siberia of animals such as Mastodans, Wolly Mammoths, Sabre Tooth Tigers and many others who suddenly became caught up in a horrific global change in the climate. It would be different if they were all caught in some global castastrophe like an earthquake or volcanic explosion or a meteor, but they appear to have been immediately frozen in time, suspended animation. They are found with fresh food in thier mouths and thier stomachs. They were in the process of life going on as usual and then suddenly in an instant of time, they were forever frozen in ice.

    They are unknown as to how old they are. It's been determined that they are several thousands of years old, but even at that, according to some critics, radio carbon dating is ineffective at determining the age of anything before the flood as it is impossible to get an accurate reading as to when something showed up on the planet. Earth's atmosphere was of a completly different structure and that technology cannot determine with any accuracy how old something is.

    The absolute opposites that exist on Earth cause me to wonder as well. Extreme heat of the deserts in places like the Middle East, and the hostile Arctic and Antarctic envioronments on both polar ends of the planet. Something must have come along and just ripped through Earth's atmosphere to bring those two extremes to the fore. Also the changing of the seasons are never mentioned until after the flood. So it would support to some extent that there must have been one climate, as the change is never mentioned until afterwards.

    "While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease." Genesis 8:22

    Does it seem impossible? Yes, but God is beyond man's ability to comprehend. We only see faint glimpses of his glory and we will never know with any certainty, how he did these things until we cross over and are brought back to life on a planet that is filled with the knowledge of Jehovah, just as the water covers the very seas. Habakkuk 2:14

  • the prisoner No 6
    the prisoner No 6

    Using Boyles law it is possible for a great amount of water in the form of vapour, to be kept hot and under presure in the Thermeosphere, this could account for the water canopy, which would indeed create the greenhouse effect and stabilise tempratures around the globe

    Would there be any need for a truly Global worlwide flood ? Not really, since Jah wanted to destroy mankind, and they were living in the same geograghical area, a localised flood would make more sense, Ja did not need to flood the Americas or Australia there was no piont, accordind to the bible all of mankind, were living in one small part of the globe. Flood It and you get all mankind, makes more sense, that way Noah does not have to go to Aus to get kangaroos ect.

    be seeing you

  • prophecor
    prophecor

    Welcome Number 6. That's a great observation. Why destroy the entire world. No ones made to any other place on the planet.

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