607 wrong using ONLY the bible (and some common sense)

by Witness My Fury 492 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • djeggnog


    Regarding the 2 Ki. 24:1 question I asked: "Do you agree that 2 Ki. 24:1 does not tell us in which year Jehoiakim became vassal to Nebuchadnezzar? A simple yes or no will suffice this time." Shall I assume your refusal to answer means you agree that it's a 'yes'?

    You may assume whatever you wish; you have my permission. You are stuck on stupid, a "channel" that I generally skip when I can, except there are occasions when I have to admit tuning into it at times, doing so with the hope of making lemonade from lemons for the lurkers here, with so many rotten ones making it such a chore finding the best ones for lemonade. You want to use God's word to win arguments; I want to use God's word so that others 'might win when they are being judged by Christ.' (Romans 3:4) You wish to turn away as many folks as you can away from Christ; I have no wish to do that. Maybe by folks listening to your objections and my responses to your objections, they will be convinced to turn to God and not from him.

    The importance of this discussion that the OP began in this thread really is to help those put to rest whatever doubt they might have as to the efficacy of Bible prophecies, whether they are reliable, for it follow that if they are reliable, then they give proof to Jehovah's being a God of prophecy as well as a God of truth. All of such divine revelations from God help us not only to come to know that the will of the true God, but by examining them we have convincing evidence on which to believe that he will surely deliver on the promises that he had made for the future, for not only has Jehovah caused his prophecies and their fulfillment to be preserved in a book, but in this book he has provided eyewitness testimony as well from those that were affected in some way by their fulfillment.

    For example, without God's having had recorded in the Bible details as to the credentials of the Messiah, as well as eyewitness testimony from those that were living at his first coming, none of us today would have a real basis to put faith in what God purposes for the future, namely, a life free of suffering, sorrow and death, a world where no one lives in dread of catching some loathsome disease that impacts our quality of life, or in fearful expectation of ourselves or a family member being assaulted or murdered by someone or in anxious suspense over whether we will be able to eat or have a decent place to live.

    In this thread we have been discussing a God that disciplined his people so that the land he gave them might pay off the sabbaths as well as to teach them that true worship requires obedience to his laws. By means of the prophetic word, as recorded in the Bible by the hand of some 40 men, we today now know things about the future that many do not; we have hope that many others do not have. From our consideration of this prophecy in particular, we know the folly of trying to prove our own righteousness by our own selfish works since only by repentance from dead works and pursuing godly works of faith can we can help others as well as ourselves enter into God's rest day.

    But based on the fulfillment of some of Jehovah God's prophecies already and the things that his son, the Lord Jesus Christ, has taught us in enlarging upon God's will for mankind, and in his becoming sin for us to redeem and ransom those of the human family having faith, we now have even more convincing evidence that all of God's promises -- good and bad -- will come true.

    What this means is that very soon now -- maybe in our own lifetime -- we will finally see the end of the present system of things and the ushering in of a new heavens and new earth that God has had in store for mankind since the founding of the world when, through Jesus, God brings to nothing the one having the means to cause death and restores life to the billions of folks that have died over the past six millenniums, people whose lives were cut short because of the effects of inherited sin.

    And I personally thank God today that I have the privilege of being able to share the good news with others, including here on JWN, as to the grand hope of their being a part of what will be the nucleus of the new earth when Jesus is actively ruling here in the earthly realm of the Millennial kingdom.


  • thetrueone

    I'd like to hear djeggnog explain why is it that Nebuchadnezzar didn't take the throne of Babylon not until his father's death in 605 BCE.

    Yet the WTS. says that he over through Jerusalem in 607 BCE.

  • Alwayshere

    djeggnog said "Nabopolassar begin to rule as King of Babylon in 646, died in 625, which year

    became his son's (Neb.) accession year, so the following year(624) would be his 1st year.

    History says 6o6 was Neb. accession so that would make 605 his 1st year.

    The Bible at 2Kings 25:8 "the 19th year of King Neb. was when Jerusalem was desolated."

    624-18=606. 605-18=587.

  • strymeckirules

    Ann - keep going. you are right on. good job.

    egg - walk away. you got served and you sound foolish now.

    so if somebody wants to summerize, what does egg have left to stand on from his original post of "facts"?

  • thetrueone

    A little infromation about Nabopolassar..... Take note of the dates

    Late Years of Nabopolassar (ABC 4)

    Ancient-Warfare.com, the online home of Ancient Warfare magazine
    The Chronicle Concerning the Late Years of Nabopolassar (ABC 4) is one of the historiographical texts from ancient Babylonia . It deals with the wars of the Babylonian king Nabopolassar and his crown prince Nebuchadnezzar against nations that were interested in taking a part of the former Assyrian Empire . This chronicle is the last part of one large text that began with the Early Years of Nabopolassar Chronicle (ABC 2) and continued with the Fall of Nineveh Chronicle (ABC 3).

    For a very brief introduction to the literary genre of chronicles, go here . The translation on this webpage was adapted from A.K. Grayson, Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles (1975) and Jean-Jacques Glassner, Mesopotamian Chronicles (Atlanta, 2004).

    Babylonian Chronicles


    Mesopotamian KingsChronology

    This text is inscribed on a small tablet, BM 22047 (96-4-9, 152), which, like Chronicle 2 , 6 , 9 , and 15 , has the shape of a Neo-Babylonian business document. It measures 45 mm long and 54 mm wide. The text is in splendid condition, so that only a few words are missing.
    1 The eighteenth year of Nabopolassar(608/607): In the month Ulûlu the king of Akkad mustered his army and
    2 following the bank of the Tigris to the mountains of Bit-Hanunya
    3 in the district of Urartu , he went up. He set fire to the cities and
    4 plundered them extensively. In the month Tebêtu the king of Akkad went home.
    5 The nineteenth year(607/606): In the month Simanu the king of Akkad mustered his army and
    6 Nebuchadnezzar , his eldest son, the crown prince,
    7 mustered his army. They marched to the mountains of Za[...].
    8 The king of Akkad left the prince and his army there while he returned to Babylon in the month of Du'ûzu .
    9 After his departure, Nebuchadnezzar did battle at Biranati, situated in the mountains,
    10 captured Biranati, set it on fire, and took many prisoners.
    11 He conquered all of the mountains as far as the district of Urartu.
    12 In the month Ulûlu the prince returned to Babylon. In the month Tašrîtu the king of Akkad mustered his army and
    13 marched to Kimuhu, which is on the bank of the Euphrates .
    14 He crossed the river, did battle against the city, and in the month Kislîmu he captured the city.
    15 He sacked it and stationed a garrison of his in it. In the month Šabatu he went home.
    16 The twentieth year(606/605): The army of Egypt marched [17] against the garrison of Kimuhu
    17 which the king of Akkad had stationed inside. For four months,
    18 they laid siege to the city, captured it, and defeated the garrison of the king of Akkad.
    19 In the month Tašrîtu , the king of Akkad mustered his army, marched along the bank of the Euphrates, and
    20 pitched camp in Quramatu, which is on the bank of the Euphrates.
    21 He had his army cross the Euphrates and they captured [22] Šunadiri, Elammu,
    22 and Dahammu, cities of Syria,
    23 and plundered them. In the month Šabatu the king of Akkad went home.
    24 The army of Egypt, which was in Karchemiš, crossed the Euphrates and
    25 against the army of Akkad, which was camped in Quramatu,
    26 it marched. They pushed the army of Akkad back so that they withdrew.
    27 The twenty-first year(605/604): The king of Akkad stayed home while Nebuchadnezzar, his eldest son
    28 and crown prince, mustered the army of Akkad.
  • thetrueone

    Good grief where do these delusional psychopaths come from ?

  • WontLeave

    The Writing Department? In the land of JWs, the delusional psychopath is king.

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    Ignoring psycho delusional thread hijacking nut....

    @Eggnog,.. so you belive the nonsense on P46 on the Daniel book about Daniel 2:1 then. To Quote:


    *** dp chap. 4 p. 46 The Rise and Fall of an Immense Image ***

    Chapter Four

    The Rise and Fall of an Immense Image

    A DECADE has passed since King Nebuchadnezzar brought Daniel and other "foremost men of the land" of Judah into captivity in Babylon. (2 Kings 24:15) Young Daniel is serving in the king's court when a life-threatening situation arises. Why should this interest us? Because the way that Jehovah God intervenes in the matter not only saves the lives of Daniel and others but also gives us a view of the march of world powers of Bible prophecy leading into our times.


    2 "In the second year of the kingship of Nebuchadnezzar," wrote the prophet Daniel, "Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams; and his spirit began to feel agitated, and his very sleep was made to be something beyond him." (Daniel 2:1) The dreamer was Nebuchadnezzar, the king of the Babylonian Empire. He had effectively become world ruler in 607 B.C.E. when Jehovah God allowed him to destroy Jerusalem and its temple. In the second year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign as world ruler (606/605 B.C.E.), God sent him a terrifying dream.


    That's one hell of a leap there dont you think!

    If you had stated the slightly more reasonable position that Nebs 2nd year here was being counted by Daniel since his exile AND Daniel assigning that period an accession (year 0) giving 0, 1, 2 years would have been passable, but to spout the same drivel as on P46 quoed above is a very poor show indeed.

    Nil points to you sir.

    AND you refused to provide any backup for your 35 years for Nabonidus / Belshazzar, tut tut.

    Nil points to you sir.

    Go on you know you want to.....

  • AnnOMaly

    [Ann formerly] Regarding the 2 Ki. 24:1 question I asked: "Do you agree that 2 Ki. 24:1 does not tell us in which year Jehoiakim became vassal to Nebuchadnezzar? A simple yes or no will suffice this time." Shall I assume your refusal to answer means you agree that it's a 'yes'?

    [djeggnog] You may assume whatever you wish; you have my permission.

    Lovely! That's a wrap, ladies and gentlemen. How was djeggnog's performance?

    Well, he spewed out a lot of verbiage and when asked to substantiate some of his assertions, or was called out on any deceptions he was trying to pull off, he got crabby and made it the questioner's fault for not 'getting it,' or else he ignored the counter-points altogether and continued repeating the same guff that had already been objected to.

    As far as our own discussion went, djeggnog was unable or unwilling to:

    - discuss the Levitical tie-in with 2 Chron. 36:21 along with Jeremiah's original prophecy which shows that God did not declare the land must lay desolate to pay off its sabbaths for a period of 70 years;

    - properly address the contention that there continued to be "inhabitants of these devastated places" after Jerusalem was destroyed and after Gedaliah's assassination (Ezek. 33:21-24). Instead he used Scriptures that had no bearing on this discrepancy and dismissed the argument out of hand as without merit;

    - apologize for being fraudulent in attributing WTS dates to an encyclopedia regarding information on the neo-Babylonian dynasty;

    - directly acknowledge that 2 Ki. 24:1 does nothing to prove it was in his 8th year that Jehoiakim became Neb's vassal;

    - provide an account for how Jehoiakim became Neb's vassal 3 years before a first siege;

    - take Dan. 1:1, 2 at its word, preferring instead to make those words mean something entirely different;

    - back up his claim that Nabonidus and Belshazzar were coregents from 575/574 BC for 35 years;

    - comprehend the different systems for counting regnal years in the Bible which led him to wrong conclusions and false allegations.

    It's not looking good, is it?

    On the plus side, he has been ready to admit one or two errors he made - it's something, I guess.

    You want to use God's word to win arguments ...

    No, eggie, I want to use it to help establish the truth of a matter (Jer. 23:29).

  • PSacramento

    It is impossible by using the bible ALONE to come up with ANY date for ANY event.

    It was written that way, not for OUR chronology anyway.

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