"and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

by Chalam 45 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  factfinder

  @godrulz- thank you for explaining Modulism for me. But I am still confused as to your explanation as to who God is. So you are saying Jesus is NOT the Father but is equal to him?

  I was born and raised Jewish as are all of my relatives. I stopped practicing Judaism when I was 15 and began studying with the witnesses when I was 18. I got baptized when I was 20. One of my brothers also became a witness-he is still a devout one-to the extreme!

  The witnesses helped me see what the NT teaches about Jesus and I was able to accept what they taught about him-although there were times I had trouble with the all attention being given to Jesus.

  It appears the WTS has misrepresented what other religions teach just as other religions have misrepresented what the WTS teaches!

  Since discovering the truth about the witnesses (not easy to deal with at all- I was a witness for close to 30 years) my beliefs have been confused and in a state of flux. I have become more open minded as to what others on JWN believe as well as more curious about the Jewish religion. As to why the Jewish religion does not accept Jesus, there is an excellent discussion on this at

  www.whatjewsbelieve.com. (see also: www.beingjewish.com)

  Much of it makes sense to me, while some does not.

  I still feel the witnesses are right regarding some things.

  To accept Jesus as God is just not possible for me. I am interested however in how you view Jesus and how you explain the trinity as opposed to how the WTS presents it.

  But the "Christian" belief that my family and relatives will not get eternal life and worse yet, will somehow suffer in an afterlife, for not accepting Jesus as God is very hateful and anti-semitic to me. Such a teaching makes me want to reject Jesus altogether.

  "Christians" need to understand the Jewish beliefs about God, sin, messiah, etc to be able to understand why it is so difficult for someone Jewish to accept Jesus, let alone accept him as God.

  Remember too, that the Jewish Bible, the Tanakh, does not include the NT which is not considered sacred scripture by Jewish people. You must be able to show from the Hebrew scriptures only, how one man can die for the sins of another, etc. Jewish people do not believe someone can die for someone else's sins. This is why my brother and I could not get my relatives to consider Jesus as fullfilling messianic prophecies.

  For "Christians" ( not all do this) to tell Jewish people they will not get eternal life because they do not worship Jesus just makes it seem that "Christianity" is an anti-semitic religion- no-wonder most Jewish people do not have any interest in Jesus!

  I am considering both sides- Jewish and Christian.
• 

  godrulz

  It seems you have a good heart and mind. There are many Messianic Jews who understand that Jesus is God, Messiah, Lord, Savior, King. The OT hints at the Deity of the Messiah (Is. 9:6 with Is. 10:21), but we do need progressive revelation of the NT to fully understand God and His ways. Is. 53 is Messianic. Jesus gives fuller revelation because He is the reality of the shadows/types of the OT (Heb. 1:1-3). The gospel is foolishness to Gentiles and a stumbling block for Jews. You did well to see Jesus as the Messiah, but did not go far enough to see that He claimed to be God in the flesh and rose from the dead to prove these claims. The book of Romans and Hebrews will help your understanding. Paul was the prototypical Jew who became one of the greatest Christians. There is nothing incompatible about Pauline Christianity and Judaism. The OT simply does not fully develop the doctrine of God, soteriology (salvation), eschatology (end times), etc. God bless in your faith journey. I pray that you will come to know Jesus, Messiah, Lord God Almighty, Prince of Peace, King of kings, Lord of lords, the Alpha/Omega, Beginning/End, First/Last.
• 

  Rocky_Girl

  "There are many Messianic Jews who understand that Jesus is God, Messiah, Lord, Savior, King." Yes, but Messianic Jews are not Jewish, they are Christians. Obviously, if someone truly imitates Jesus, who was Jewish, they will look like a Jew. But, a Jew who accepts Jesus as the messiah is a Christian. In fact, that is exactly what 1st century Christians were, Jews who decided that Jesus was the messiah and followed his words. It is disingenuous to suggest that the Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus represent the beliefs of Judaism. Everyone is free to worship, or not, in any way they choose. But you cannot be both Jewish and Christian. It is an either/or situation.
• 

  Chalam

  Galatians 3:28 (English Standard Version)

  28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

  1 Corinthians 12:13 (English Standard Version)

  13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

  Galatians 6:15 (English Standard Version)

  15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

  Blessings to you GLTirebiter!

  Stephen
• 

  godrulz

  I agree that Messianic Jews are Christians, not Judaistic. Judaism is the foundation for Christianity. Heb. 1:1-3 One must be in the New vs Old Covenant to be saved now.
• 

  designs

  Notice the contradictions in these Christologies..........but they can't or won't see it, yet
• 

  designs

  Heaven-

  Thanks, you know of course that 'devasting' is much worse that devastating........spelling r Us

  I owned a Vast at one time and boy trying to get it devasted is a m$%^&**((
• 

  godrulz

  What contradictions in Christology specifically? The WT has a defective Christology and Jews have a short-sighted view of who Messiah was to be. A sound Christology includes the pre-existence/eternality of Christ, virgin conception, incarnation, life, death, physical resurrection, essential Deity, etc.
• 

  LV101

  godrulz -- question: so the mistranslation of God's name is the main reason it shouldn't be used (as JW's do) and the fact they're in error w/name being replaced in their new testament, right? maybe this is why it's so difficult for ex-JW's to get the meaning of Jesus = God. it's very hard to grasp Jesus is God and about the time i start to comprehend it gets confusing --- appreciate your effort explaining.

  this is such a great post/info.
• 

  godrulz

  Evangelicals use the name 'Jehovah', but we recognize it is speculative for YHWH. We also reject the conspiracy theory that someone took the name out of the NT. The WT is wrong based on 1000s of extant MSS. Other names/titles are used of God. The important thing is to have a sound doctrine of God, not start a cult around misinformation about His name. The arguments for the Deity of Christ are strong, but JWs have a defense mechanism by wrongly thinking we are saying Jesus is the Father (that is modalism heresy). The Jews also choked on His claims to Deity. JWs and Pharisees have much in common. Many Jews and JWs now worship Jesus as God, as do hundreds of millions of Christians. This is what separates Christianity from every religion. He is the only way to the Father and proved this by rising from the dead. If He was not God, there are other religious options. Because He is God, He is the only way to eternal life. We would have to look at the biblical evidence and handle the objections. I believe this is more than possible and necessary to do so. I wish you could trust me (I know that I know after 30 years research), but the Spirit must illuminate it from the Word (no one confesses Him as Lord God apart from the Spirit). Robert Bowman, Jr. and J. Ed Komoszewski "Putting Jesus in His place: The case for the Deity of Christ" (see amazon.com) is a readable, scholastic look building the case. There are simpler books, but this is up-to-date on biblical research and definitive. Some of the JW counter-cult books (including ones by Bowman on the Trinity, Deity, John, etc.) are very helpful to expose WT shoddy scholarship. The WT and Satan are totally lying about who Jesus is. He is King of kings and Lord of Lords, the Alpha and the Omega, the I AM, Lord God, YHWH, etc. He is worthy of worship only because He is God (Heb. 1:6; Rev. 4-5; Mt. 2 wise men worship, etc.). The WT obeisance distortion does not stand up to Greek scrutiny.