is getting a blood transfusion in itself a DF offense?

by oompa 26 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  nugget

  It may depend on what your wife has told them. If she said that you had given her instructions that in the event of an accident you would accept blood then they may take that as evidence of DA. However if this was the only witness against you then the 2 witness rule can be applied to say that there was not sufficient evidence. In addition if you argue that you gave your wife no such instruction then she could be da'd for allowing it to go ahead against your wishes. That would be ironic if the df'd your wife and left you in good standing.

  Oompa I am sorry this has continued they really don't have any shame.
• 

  Band on the Run

  I am an American lawyer. The worse thing to do is threaten a lawsuit when you have no grounds. They a First Amendment to practice their religion, an almost absolute right here in the States. They have utter freedom to judge by the rules of their religion. The only grounds you would have would be if you did not have transfusion and they knowingly said that you did. It is a very hard standard to prove. Courts will almost always side with the religion over the individual. We are a country founded by religious dissidents. Most constitutional provisions were affected by the different religious interests of the time. Even neutral ones are religious based, in part. Certain states had estabished religions. NY was suspect b/c of its Jewish and other foreign population, including Papists.

  See a local lawyer for a free consultation. Everyone thinks about suing in this country. The law is not present for justice in every matter. It is a very rough accomodation to competing interests on a handfull of matters. Fairness is only attribute. Continuity and uniformity are equall important as fairness. Ruling on a religious matter and blood transfusions are a key component of JW religious doctrine entangles courts in a religion, something they avoid more than avoiding the plague.

  As a former Witness, I share your ire and frustration. It is not fair. The WTBTS can seem so powerful when you are inside or making the transition to true freedom. Once you are out, you seem them for a destructive religion. They are very inconsequential except for the destroyed lives of their adherents. Most of those adherents were adults who chose to be affiliated with them. I would welcome the disfellowship in retrospect. Transition is a very awkward affair. If you disengage, they will have little power over you. Frankly, though, I post here even though decades have passed. JWs still trigger me so their influence is still present. Hatred is not the opposite of love. Disinterest is the opposite of love. I want a disinterested view towards the WTBTS rather than becoming triggered by the memories and flood of feelings.
• 

  Morbidzbaby

  Oompa I wasn't aware of your situation, so that does change things a bit, doesn't it? If you need to get the DF'ing overturned, then go for it. I'd take the advice mentioned above and try to get it overturned. Here's the thing...if they refuse to accept your appeal, would you try to get reinstated? If you can prove that it wasn't intentional, they may overturn it...but you'd have to prove it. Can you?

  Here's an aside...sometimes...SOMETIMES you can get a doctor to write something for you to help you out. I had a physician post-date something by over a month so that I could get a procedure done that I decided to do at the last minute...she dated the paper for the previous month when I signed because my insurance would not cover it without 30 days prior signature. So, she kinda lied, but not really because we HAD discussed it a month before, but I hadn't decided yet. You might be able to maneuver something through your doctor.
• 

  jonathan dough

  i might could drag it out and make them bleed money

  Not something you want to admit to. Also, if there is litigation they can make you produce every comment posted here.

  As for grounds, or possible causes of action, the JWs are very vulnerable. They just haven't met their match, yet. Even in the USA, there are limitations to what they can do. Their religious rights are not absolute. Just don't stumble in. They will make you bleed money.
• 

  Mad Sweeney

  Here's the thing. Ever since the early 80s a DF and DA are EXACTLY THE SAME THING to the Borg. It might be a semantic game they play to appease the courts and governments they're in bed with but for ALL intents and purposes there is no difference between a DA and a DF. Strictly speaking a blood transfusion is an auto-DA. By taking one, a JW has DA'd him/herself and they can make the announcement.

  That said, HOW WOULD THEY KNOW unless they violated HIPAA? I don't recall your full story, whether your wife allowed the transfusion AND blew the whistle to the Borg on you, but if she did, then like someone mentioned, SHE is the guilty party and should be in Borg hot water. I doubt you want to sue your wife for violating your medical confidentiality, though.

  Tough spot you're in, bro. Just do what's comfortable for you. If you want to waste a group of elders time with a committee, hey, every little bit helps. Good luck.
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  Meet with them. DENY! DENY! DENY! Then they will be forced to produce two witnesses to the fact. Perhaps that will disclose if someone violated HIPPA. Now there is a lawsuit. You won't get anywhere trying to sue the committee members or the congregation or the Society. Religion is given a broad road to deal with it's internal issues. At best you could only force the individual members to have to spend $$ on an attorney, but only IF the Society did not ask a local brother who is an attorney to handle it.

  Your only other choice if it is important for you to stay "IN" is to meet with them and display total remorse that they don't comprehend what happened to you when you were facing life or death and the chance of not seeing you wife or children again. REMORSE REMORSE REMORSE
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Other than a consideration of what Band on the Run and DesirousOfChange said, I would say they were gunning for you and will pile on to your DA/DF if necessary to keep it that way. You could even be a new case of brazen conduct, defying their previous efforts to snatch you out of the fire, but you ignored their counsel.

  It's not impossible, but it's worth a looky-see about appealing and then you might have to forget about that.

  Generally, if you willingly receive a transfusion, you disassociate yourself. You can kiss the elders' asses and sometimes be "reinstated" immediately with a reproval, or they may just call it the reproof to begin with- it's all semantics. There's some stupid magic to them "announcing" someone as no longer a JW, so the guilty transfusion receiver can bend over for a JC and get them to avoid the announcement. Once it's made, it's difficult to change their minds.

  No remorse, no initial meeting with the brothers- YOU ARE OUT.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Hey Oompa..

  I hope your doing better Bud..I can`t believe you lived through that..LOL!!..

  You were in frigg`n bed for 2 months..And..The JW Elders ruined your Reputation..

  How are you supposed to Defend Yourself, from a Hospital Bed?..

  Find a smart Flesh Eating Lawyer..

  Someone who specialises in Slander Cases..

  ..................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  blondie

  It wasn't untill the new elder manual came out that there was anything in writing making taking a blood transfusion a DA offense. The elders had been told verbally about ten years ago by the CO at an elders meeting but while he read from a "document" the CO would not call it a letter and the elders were not allowed a copy.

  http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/medicine/the-watchtower-governing-body-and-the-blood-issue.html?q=blood+transfusions
• 

  miseryloveselders

  The DA announcement is only "supposed" to happen when the subject "willingly and unrepentantly takes blood." Even then, the elders are to investigate the person's attitude to see if he or she is repentant. Also, they need to consider the circumstances such as extreme pressure being placed on the individual at that time. If the person shows repentance, or remorse, then the person would be removed of privileges, and possibly an announcement made in these words, "The elders have handled a matter having to do with Insert name here. You will be glad to know that spiritual shepherds are endeavoring to render assistance." If the person doesn't show repentance or remorse, then the DA announcement is made.

  Although not written in the Flock book, when one recieves a transfusion unconsciously, its pretty much handled the same way. They're looking for repentance, or remorse, and also why the individual recieved a transfusion in the first place considering that the publisher should have had information on hand stating their beliefs on blood transfusions.

  Oompa, I'm thinking in your situation, they were looking to axe you anyway. Your accident and the transfusion given later simply landed in their laps conveniently. Me personally, I say move on, but if you have a warrior's heart, then go ahead and make life difficult on them.