Watch Tower Society Facing Criminal Charges and Indictment in Australia (page 13)

Roski

I have heard of some elders being "appointed" as the one to look after "orphans and widows" etc. I would assume this is work relevant to 'pastoral care' by other church ministers. Not sure about having a brother/sister come to the house for a bible study though - guess this could be termed a private arrangement. From my knowledge, this is where a lot of the trouble happened/s. Perhaps this is in some way connected to the book study being discontinued - just a guess.

kjw53

Listener-- The facts are these-- The Jw,s have no sunday schools or the such-- The words you read about that is from an apostate who is trying to get them in court, but it has allready been thrown out once-check your facts-there isnt one credible source behind those words written that you all presume are true.

Aussie Oz

@kjw53

No, we don't all presume that what Steven Unthank says is true.

There are parts of his submission (have you read all 644 odd pages?) that we can not verify, things and events that only he was privy to. That information we can't take as 'gospel' just because he is againts the WT.

Much of it is plausable because of the documented history of child abuse that exists globally among JWs. But a claim of does not make true, any more than a claim of makes for untrue.

That is for a Judge to decide at the end of the day.

Nobody has to agree with the sources used other than Steven and a Judge either.

The act clearly states:

9 What is child-related work?

(1) For the purposes of this Act,

child-related work

(ii) as a minister of religion or as part of the

duties of a religious vocation;

That the JWs operate no schools is totally irrelivant to the FACT that they do call themselves ORDAINED MINISTERS and do like to hide behind that title when it suits them.

And for that fact alone, the WT IS guilty of criminal charges by Victorian law.

Whether the Victorian legal system deems that will be prosecutable or not is up to them.

oz

dont try to pull the 'he's a nasty apostate full of lies' card here... it does not work!

AndersonsInfo

I went to Steven Unthank's blog, www.jwnews.net, a few minutes ago and learned quite a bit more about his cause. Among other things, I learned that there is no fee to get a back-ground check for religious volunteers. The WWC website said there was a fee for applicants, but when I read the information on that website a few days ago, I didn't see that the fee didn't apply to religions.

It was interesting to read on Mr. Unthank's blog his feelings about what he read on this thread about his criminal charges against Watch Tower. I took the following information that he posted on April 6th from his blog:

Thank you to everyone that has provided feedback and constructive (and at times "destructive") criticism. This has really helped me to sort through what I should and should not publish, or link to, on this webpage. Again, I really sincerely thank you. :) You are welcome at my place for steak and beers. I have often been asked "who are you"? Honestly, I do not know how to properly answer this. My life has been too complex, too complicated, too horrific. Despite this...I love my God, I love my family, I love my religion, I love my country, and I love my Bible. I personally believe that "by every kind of toil there comes to be an advantage". The advantage may not be mine, but I hope it will be yours. My mother, a Presbyterian, recently told me: "You're my son and I love you. You are what the Watch Tower Society forced and made you to be, just to survive, just to defend yourself and our family. What they did to you was wrong. What they did to your brother was wrong. What they did to our family was wrong. What they are still doing to us and to all the children is wrong. If they were really from God then they would not have done this. They should be held accountable for everything." Mum is right. Mothers are always right. In February 2007, Watch Tower Society lawyer, Elder Ivan E. Novian, stood up on the podium inside the Skye church of Jehovah's Witnesses and publicly announced: "If anyone goes up against [the Watch Tower Society] with a view to seeking justice, even if you have actually been wronged, then you can expect to be wiped out and left penniless." My family was present in the audience. Our church elders informed us that the statement was directed at our family. Why? We were wronged. We were seeking justice. I am now penniless...but I have not been wiped out. What the Watch Tower Society did to my family is discussed in pages 378 to 424 of the Brief of Evidence document [see download link below]. If they were and are willing to do this to my family then they are also willing do this to you and your family. If you are interested in my childhood, then this is discussed on pages 349 to 361. To read these sets of pages is to understand who I am and why I am scarred and scared. - Steven Unthank (6 April 2011)

etna

Thank you Barbara for all you and Joe do. I'm in Austarlia and will be watching carefully.

Etna

Curtains

Hi steven

you need to address "child related work" and how Jehovahs witnesses have instituted formal arrangements for their minsters to engage in child related work. The fact that all jehovahs witnesses are defined as ministers clouds this issue and can work against you. It is perhaps more important to focus on the heiarchical arrangment that JWs have in place - ie that elders, overseers and ministerial servants fulfill the definition of how the term "Minister" is perceived in other religions.

And then I think it is important to define how the WTS has formal arrangements in place in which ministers are required to come into contact with children. Imo the door to door work is a formal arrangment instituted by the WTS. This is not something that a witness engages in informally and privately. The door to door work is a formal requirement of all baptized members including children and teenagers. There are strict rules that the door to door activity be done in two's so you have an adult working with a child very often. If parents are sick or unable to go out in the ministry their baptized children are expected to go out on their own and work with another adult. Baptized male teens formally lead groups in the ministry.

perhaps you have already worked out a definition of WTS formal arrangements for the ministry so I apologise if I am going over stuff you have already resolved.

Aussie Oz

Hello Steven Unthank

If you are reading this forum...as Barbara indicated...

Is there a link or a record somehow of the comment:

In February 2007, Watch Tower Society lawyer, Elder Ivan E. Novian, stood up on the podium inside the Skye church of Jehovah's Witnesses and publicly announced: "If anyone goes up against [the Watch Tower Society] with a view to seeking justice, even if you have actually been wronged, then you can expect to be wiped out and left penniless."

That can be verified, documented fact that even the WT cannot dispute it ever said?

Thankyou ( i would expect that you may wish to pass information on via a 3rd party to protect your online identity)

oz

zen19

Good job on this - I suggest other aussies will send emails and letters asking why this law is not being enforced on a group with know peado tendancies.

finallysomepride

book marked

Listener

KJW53 said Listener-- The facts are these-- The Jw,s have no sunday schools or the such-- The words you read about that is from an apostate who is trying to get them in court, but it has allready been thrown out once-check your facts-there isnt one credible source behind those words written that you all presume are true.

The only fact that I based my question on was that the JWs had not applied for WWC certificates. Although there may be individuals who have done so just to protect themselves from legal action for non-compliance (and we now know that even the elders are considered to be acting independantly).

What I asked you was why the JWs had not met their legal obligation to obtain WWC certificates as you made the claim that they are true ministers appointed by God.

In the past I have seen similar reactions from JWs when they believe they are defending something - that is, they will try to shoot the messanger as being wacko or a liar. What is shameful is that it is often a person's dealings with the JWs that lead some to behave in an irrational or overly emotional way and there is no compassion, no understanding, no attempt at reconcilling, no assistance in providing emotional help, no concern for their welfare but quite the opposite - shunning and avoidance.

What sometimes occurs is the attacking of the messanger rather than a motivation to correct a wrongdoing.

Watch Tower Society Facing Criminal Charges and Indictment in Australia

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