Watch Tower Society Facing Criminal Charges and Indictment in Australia (page 12)

doofdaddy

Yeah, I get his point but when dealing with legal issues and especially complaints a person has to be so careful with the wording. I just read his blog and it rambles from enforcing the WWC Act to saying elders and servants are child abusers for not having the said checks done, to formally speaking in behalf of "Jehovah God and Jesus Christ." using the formal prayer in Gov sessions as his precedent!

Currently he has complaints against the Commisioner of (Vic) Police and others (which in the first instance came to nought).

This will not assist his claim.

MeanMrMustard

@jwfacts:

Snoozy wrote this:

Your work is included in the WWC Check if you are:

a volunteer (this does not include unpaid work done for a private or domestic purpose, such as driving a neighbour’s children to school)
performing unpaid community work under a court order
an employee or an independent contractor (self-employed person)
a minister of religion or performing duties of a religious vocation
an officer of a body corporate
a member of a committee of management (unincorporated body or association) or partnership
a person doing practical training as part of an educational or vocational course, for example, a student teacher.

What exactly is the definition of "a minister of a religion"? And what "duties of a religious vocation" are covered under this law? I think all baptized JWs are considered "ordained ministers". Is that not a "vocation" of the religion? Each member should be performing the "duties" of the religion by way of field service - duties as part of their being ordained ministers ... This is the way the role of each JW is defined by the WTS itself.

I'm just wondering how far someone could push this...

MeanMrMustard

Aussie Oz

I think, The WT likes to call them selves ministers when it suits them and not if that suits them too.

They are very quick to invoke eccleisatical privelege as 'ordained Ministers' when their so called ministry or staus is questioned and will hide behind it.

At other times when it seems that the label will lead to taxation or complience to some law, all of a sudden they are just humble christians...well, thats my perception.

oz

EntirelyPossible

So, I wish Mr. Unthank that best as he goes on to fight his battles. It's best to have constructive critisism from friends first, then to get it on the enemy lines. I hope we are not turning into enemy lines.

I am not the enemy lines, but I am an asshole when it comes to telling you if you make sense. Trust me, you would rather your friend tell you that you're being stupid rather than find out in the public spotlight. (I am anot saying you are stupid, skeeter).

9 countries have allready done away with all organized religion recently according to cnn about 2 weeks ago before the show about the occurences in murfreesboro was on. Yes it is very real it is coming.

No, they didn't. And no, it's not.

kjw53

One may think that men can make another a true minister of God, but it is God who makes the true ministers. This sights name should be changed to-- Satans mockers of Jehovah. Keep laughing. Thats what they did to Noah.

Black Sheep

The Watchtower has been making a fool of Jehovah for 130 years, KJW. This site wouldn't exist otherwise.

How much do you know about their history?

Listener

kjw53, if the JWs are true ministers appointed by God then why are they not abiding by the requirements of the law in Australia to obtain a WWC certificate?

MeanMrMustard

@Aussie Oz and @kjw53

Aussie Oz wrote:
I think, The WT likes to call them selves ministers when it suits them and not if that suits them too.
They are very quick to invoke eccleisatical privelege as 'ordained Ministers' when their so called ministry or staus is questioned and will hide behind it.
At other times when it seems that the label will lead to taxation or complience to some law, all of a sudden they are just humble christians...well, thats my perception.
oz

True. I can see that happening too. But that's why I mention how the WTS itself defines the role of the R&F JW - that at baptism, each becomes an ordained minister in the religion, performing a vital function/role/service/vocation of the religion. Again, I'm not doubting that the WTS could put on a double face, so-to-speak. I'm just wondering how far someone could push it.

In the course of my JW lifetime, I've been a part of four different congregations, and I've seen parents allow children to go out in service with other car groups (separated from the parentss) on a Saturday morning, even if the child was six, seven years old. Would this not be counted as working with children within the bounds of religion's vocation? I'm sure it happens in every congregation.

kjw53 wrote:

One may think that men can make another a true minister of God, but it is God who makes the true ministers. This sights name should be changed to-- Satans mockers of Jehovah. Keep laughing. Thats what they did to Noah.

*shrugs* - OK. I'll agree to that. But in terms of this Australian law, I think how the WTS defines "ordained minister" and how the term is applied by the WTS to its members matters more.

MeanMrMustard

@jwfacts:

You wrote:

MMM - I highly doubt this would be extended to all JW Ministers, despite the Watchtower using that to its advantage when it can, such as getting out of military service. It will most likely only be applied to Elders. In the child abuse cases that the Watchtower has lost in the past, the cases have specifially been about abuse from elders.

Surely it would have to apply to ministerial servants too. In the congregations that I've attended, ministeral servants were much more active with the children than the elders were. They were more personable, a bit younger, and most had kids of their own. They were used in matters of discipline as well (when it involved a counseling-like offense, not necessarily a judical committee level offense).

MeanMrMustard

JW GoneBad

Joe and Barbara: Thank you for sharing. I, like many, appreciate what you do. Keep up the good work!

Watch Tower Society Facing Criminal Charges and Indictment in Australia

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