by nicolaou 175 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
But the simple fact is that we do all sin.
I am with Wobble. Sin seems to be defined by religion. I understand evil, but if my daily actions are not evil, who decides that they still offend God?
Without the act of disobedience to God in Genesis, I say the Christian message does fall apart. Because God created us and sets the standards for "sin." He decides that his own handiwork if flawed and then tries to show people his gratitude.
OnThe WayOut wrote: "Sin seems to be defined by religion. I understand evil, but if my daily actions are not evil, who decides that they still offend God?"
I used to wonder the same thing as a jw. I was told to pray for forgivness of sin, on a daily basis. I could not square this with my daily experiences. On a typical day I go to work to provide for my family, which I am supposed to do. I go home. I eat dinner. I go to bed. Then, in bed, I'm supposed to ask for forgiveness of the sins I committed that day. Well, how did I sin? What did I do wrong? How did I offend God when all I did that day was to do my best to be a good family man?
"I used to wonder the same thing as a jw. I was told to pray for forgivness of sin, on a daily basis."
Additionally, I wondered why I still needed to pray for forgivness if Jesus already died for my sins a couple thousand years before I got here.
I am not aware that I am sinning in any way at present, who defines sin , for me a non-believer ?
Wrongdoing. Criminal wrongdoing. (stealing, assaulting, murdering, fraud, etc) Moral wrongdoing (lying, ignoring someone in need, selfishness, hurting others to get what you want, hypocrisy, discrimination, adultery, cruelty, etc.)
That's all sin means to me.
I know of no one, anywhere, who has not done wrong - to themselves, to society, to another person directly - at some or many points in their lives.
I don't remember ever saying that you are all sinners in need of redemption. If you say you don't need it, then that's not my call. All I said is that everyone sins. (commits wrong) So that Christ atoned for those sins. I am not judging anyone. I have quite simply never, in my experience, ever met a person who would say that they have never done wrong. (even moral wrong) I have never known anyone who would even think that about themselves; including me.
Tammy
If Biblical congruence isn't a "must" for you then being a Christian means more about Christ than it does the Bible.
Absolutely.
If Biblical congruence isn't a "must" for you then being a Christian means more about Christ than it does the Bible.
Absolutely.
oops... guess it was worth repeating ;)
This may seem like a long way around but bear with me:
I saw a program a few months ago where Catholic priests were discussing birth control, and why it can be blamed for nearly all of societies problems. They claim that there are more unwanted pregnancies, more children born out of wedlock, ect. because birth control makes people (women in particular) feel safer having sex outside of marriage. They said that women who use birth control, are making it more difficult for women who don't use birth control because the women who do, attract the men easier. So the "good" women are losing out, and being forced to become "bad".
Reading between the lines of their "discussion", their message seemed to me to be that women who use birth control (loose women), are at the heart of nearly all of societies problems. Their general message (still) being that women are evil, immoral, and responsible for humanities fall from grace.
If "the church" (and by default all other Christian sects, and possibly both other Abrahamic religions i.e. Islam and Judaism) did not have Genesis, how would they be able to blame women for everything?
If "the church" (and by default all other Christian sects, and possibly both other Abrahamic religions i.e. Islam and Judaism) did not have Genesis, how would they be able to blame women for everything?
Judaism apparently does not blame Eve for Adam's sin, and the Genesis account is theirs to begin with. Or women, for the problems of the world, for that matter.
Tammy
The Christian message has for two thousand years been based on the biblical foundation of Genesis, which means beginning. Without Genesis the whole house of cards has no table to stand on. A god that, created man perfectly, followed by sin, Noah’s flood, atonement and redemption, without the authority that Genesis gives them, all become part of a badly written novel. Without Genesis there is no need for Christ. We do not even have a talking snake for comfort on a cold night.
Best scrap the whole mess that is called a bible and rely on our imagination to invent a talking spirit that can guide us and provide the basis for a new religion. One which cashes in on the Christian foundation, while at the same time dismissing the beliefs of millions of previous Christians who kept and died for ‘the faith,’ as was. Christianity has ceased to have a unique message but is just an additional but judgemental branch of Buddhism, Taoism and humanitarian philosophy. Nothing wrong with any of them but why the need for so many badges?
