The secret of how Christianity spread across the world

by Terry 108 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    I hear what you're TRYING to say, dear Terry (peace to you!), but I think you miss MY point: the difference in what you believe... and what some of us women believe... is with regard to the WHY, which you yourself addressed when you mentioned the "prisons" (convents). Your position is that women readily accepted christianity and then persuaded their husbands/inculcated their children. I disagree. While women were certainly involved in the EARLY Body of Christ, men have overwhelmingly taken the lead, certainly for the first 40-60 years, then that last two millenia or so. This was primarily because the women HAD to learn at home FROM their husbands early on, as they weren't PERMITTED to learn publicly, like the men were.

    Toward the end of the first century, however, "wicked men" rose up IN the congregations... and began to twist my Lord's, Paul's (?), and others' teachings so as to have grounds to oppress women... thus, really giving women NO CHOICE. It was (from a father, husband, priest, religious leader, etc.), either embrace it... or be considered disobedient, loose, a witch, an apostate/Jezebel, and all other manner of so-and-so's that either resulted in being lashed and beaten, stoned, turned out of the home, sent to a convent... or put to death.

    My point: self-preservation was the impetus for women to accept what is known today as "christianity". Otherwise, there would BE no husband to persuade or children to inculcate. And it really hasn't changed all that much today. Who was behind this fear? Men. Primarily the clergy... then fathers/husbands who stood to be accused of heresy and all manner of sorcery becausw they couldn't control their daughter/wife and thus their own household. They were "bewitched" by any woman who dared NOT accept christianity.

    I wish folks like you would read history from a more... ummmmmm... inclusive point of view. You know, that of women. Unfortunately, christianity's "well-bred" women were kept under lock and key (they were not even allowed to enter libraries or university, etc.), and its lesser breds weren't taken seriously at all.

    And many, MANY women go to church NOT because of a love for God and Christ (and I am not challenging that, right now)... but... to find a husband! Especially one their father/mother/uncle/grandparents, etc., would approve!

    I promise you: there was a time when the Church (and thus, "christianity") was the bane of a woman's existence. She could own nothing and was nothing without a husband. If she was even remotely good-looking, she became a bed-warmer for whatever king, knight, lord, pope, bishop, priest, sheriff, jailer, tax collector, innkeeper, or whathaveyou wanted her. If she refused, they only need label her a heretic or accuse her of being a witch... and she was totured, perhaps even stoned or burned. All in the name of "god."

    So, while I understand the credit you're trying to give women, I think you're going about it in the wrong way... or, rather, the wrong place. This board really isn't the place for it because very few here really believe religion is a "good" thing any longer. And so while you may think you're doing women a service, you really are making an insult. Perhaps if you were trying to convince the congregation of fundamentalist church it might fly. If anything, though, women should be given credit for enduring "christianity" (particularly the WTBTS, but also many other religions)... and for not turning into a population of Jael's and just taking a whole lot of the men who imposed it upon them out.

    Think, Terry: most of the books written about women and religion are written by... who?

    Again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Curtains
    Curtains

    Terry

    I just have to share this with you because I like it very much and it seems to add something to our discussion here

    Apparently there is evidence that some women could provide a counter cultural voice. The courtesans. Indeed Plato (4th centuryBCE) according to quite reliable evidence, apparently taught at least 2 courtesans in his school. I understand that ordinary women were forbidden entry to the hellenistic schools but that courtesans could join.

    Another nugget, Pericles' (5th centruy BCE Athens) mistress Aspasia is thought to have contributed greatly to his intellectual development and this in a culture in which ordinary women were very very restricted. Aspasia was highly educated. (Strangely enough though Pericles himself taught that women ought to be quiet, industrious, chaste workers at home and these ideas were oft repeated in the period under discussion, by the Roman emperors particularly).

    Speaking of courtesans I am reminded of Mary Magdalen - wasn't she an adultress before she became an influential follower? or am I thinking of someone different?

  • Quentin
    Quentin

    Mary Magdalene

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Mary Magdalene
    Mary Magdalene at the foot of the Cross, mourning for the dead ChristWest: Penitent
    East:Myrrhbearer and Equal of the ApostlesBornearly 1st century AD
    Magdala?Diedmid to late 1st century AD
    Ephesus, Asia Minor or Marseilles [ 1 ]Venerated inEastern Orthodoxy
    Roman Catholic Church
    Anglican Communion
    Lutheranism
    other Protestant churches
    The Baha'i FaithFeastJuly 22Attributes

    Western:alabaster box of ointment, long hair, at the foot of the cross [ 2 ]

    Eastern: container of ointment (as a myrrhbearer), or holding a red egg (symbol of the resurrection); embracing the feet of Christ after the ResurrectionPatronageMary Magdalene or Mary of Magdala (original Greek Μαρ?α ? Μαγδαλην?, [ 3 ] flourished 1st century AD) was one of Jesus' most celebrated disciples. [ 4 ] She is famous because she was the first person to see Jesus after he rose from the dead, [ 4 ] according to the Mark 16:9, part of the so called "Longer Ending" to that chapter.

    The late 20th and early 21st century has seen a restoration of the New Testament figure of Mary Magdalene as a patron of women's preaching and ministry. Her new popularity has stemmed in part from the recognition that Mary Magdalene has suffered from what is believed to have been a historical defamation of character. Some argue [who?] that she has been misidentified as a repentant prostitute in historical tradition and as depicted in art as a weeping sinner wiping Jesus' feet with her hair. Some [who?] modern New Testament scholarship has attempted to show that this picture of Mary Magdalene is not true. [ 5 ]

    According to Luke 8:2 and Mark 16:9 , Jesus cleansed her of "seven demons." Some contemporary scholars contend this concept means healing from illness, [ 6 ] not forgiveness of sin. On the other hand, some major Christian saints, including St. Bede and St. Gregory, interpret the seven devils to signify that she was "full of all vices." [ 7 ] Hence, on this interpretation, the episode does signify the forgiveness of sins. Mary Magdalene is the leader of a group of women disciples who are present at the cross, when the male disciples (excepting John the Beloved) have fled, and at his burial. Mary was a devoted follower of Jesus, entering into the close circle of those taught by Jesus during his Galilean ministry. She became prominent during the last days, accompanying Jesus during his travels and following him to the end. She witnessed his Crucifixion and burial.

    Mary Magdalene is referred to in early Christian writings as "the apostle to the apostles." In apocryphal texts, she is portrayed as a visionary and leader of the early movement, who was loved by Jesus more than the other disciples. [ 8 ] Several Gnostic gospels, such as the Gospel of Mary, written in the early 2nd century, see Mary as the special disciple of Jesus who has a deeper understanding of his teachings and is asked to impart this to the other disciples. Speculations (though unsupported in Christian biblical canons) have emerged in antiquity and in modern times regarding Mary, including claims that she was Jesus' wife and bore him a daughter named Sarah. [ 9 ]

    Mary Magdalene is considered by the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and Lutheran churches to be a saint, with a feast day of July 22. The Eastern Orthodox churches also commemorate her on the Sunday of the Myrrhbearers which is the second Sunday after Pascha (Easter). She is also an important figure in the Baha'i Faith.

  • Terry
    Terry

    I think if we look at our own discussion board here you will find that the real scholars are FEMALE.

    The genuine analysts are women. Leoleia, Lady Lee, Barbra Anderson, and many others...

    The men are commentators and opinion mongers. Not absolutely, but, generally.

    The depth of the emotions of women's posts are the tip of the iceberg. There is a profound resource of meditative

    contemplation and commitment in their lives, mothering, teaching and social momentum.

    I don't see men as being nearly so effective.

    But, hey---that's me. I'm willing to be wrong.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Terry

    The men scholars that were here got booted or moved on. There are other factors that brought this site to where it is, today.

    S

  • Curtains
    Curtains

    satanus - I prefer Terry's version

    quentin and I are on the same page

  • JustHuman14
    JustHuman14

    It is obvious that indeed women played a very importand role in the spreading of Christianity. Terry you have confirmed my observations in my post regarding Maria Magdalene.

  • stuckinlimbo
    stuckinlimbo

    The women pass on what they do in fear of the men and of the religion. They feel they have no choice.

    Sometimes the women use their powers of persuasion to show their husbands out of the cult

    However, I have known some really stupid women in my time and I'm sure it's their type that have had a hand in the type of scenario you suggest. I grew up so angry about the little respect that was shown for women and lack of faith in their abilities, but as I grew older I realised that many of the women in the congregation wern't so bright and did let emotion rule their thinking in stereotypical form

    Am I really any different if I try to persuade my child not to believe in some angry god? I guess I am in that I will be teaching them to analyse the facts and not just to "have faith" because that is what a "righteous" person does that is grateful to God (and doesn't want to get killed at the big A-Day).

  • Terry
    Terry

    How long would Jehovah's Witnesses last if the women went on strike?

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