So… according to the Jun 15 WT, Jesus ransom sacrifice only applies to the “anointed class” a.k.a the GB.

by onemore 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    serenitynow:

    I never heard that as a JW. So Jesus died for the 144,000's sins, that's it? So the rest of humanity is just SOL? What about Jesus being the Greater Adam? Since the first Adam plunged all of mankind into sin, the Greater Adam was supposed to redeem everybody. How and when did the GB change this?

    Hope the following helps:

    From CT Russell's Question Book - http://www.ctrussell.us/:

    RANSOM--Man Christ Jesus. ::Q560:1:: QUESTION (1911-Z)--1--Kindly explain the following text, especially the forepart of it: "The Man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all."--'1 Tim. 2:5,6'.

    ANSWER--Our Lord gave himself a corresponding price for all--a ransom. The application of this price will be made in due time. It has been, at the present time, appropriated to the Church [aka the 144k], imputatively, on account of their turning from sin and walking in the footsteps of Jesus. The next step in its application will be, not the imputation, but the actual giving of this to the world, bringing them up out of their imperfection, during the thousand years of the Mediatorial reign; bringing them back into that condition in which they shall be in harmony with God, even as Adam was in harmony with him before the fall.

    [ ... ]

    So, then, the Man Christ Jesus is the Redeemer of the world. But in the interim--as noted above--before the application of his merit shall be made for the world, the testimony is given to a few--as many as have ears to hear and are joint-sacrificers with him. These will be associated with him as Prophet, Priest, Mediator, King and Judge between God and men during the Millennial Kingdom.

    From w07 1/1 p. 23 pars. 12-13:

    12 On Atonement Day, the high priest slaughtered a young bull, and in the Most Holy, he spattered some of its blood seven times before the cover of the Ark, thus representatively offering the blood before Jehovah. That offering was for the sins of the high priest and "his house," the underpriests and the Levites. Then the high priest took two goats. One he slaughtered as a sin offering "for the people." Some of its blood too was sprinkled before the cover of the Ark in the Most Holy. Afterward, the high priest laid his hands on the head of the second goat and confessed the errors of the sons of Israel. Then he had the goat led off into the wilderness to carry away the nation's sins in a symbolic way.-Leviticus 16:3-16, 21, 22.

    13 As those acts foreshadowed, the great High Priest, Jesus, uses the merit of his own lifeblood to provide forgiveness of sins. First, the value of his blood is applied to the "spiritual house" of 144,000 anointed Christians, enabling these to be declared righteous and enjoy a clean standing before Jehovah. (1 Peter 2:5; 1 Corinthians 6:11) This is foreshadowed by the sacrifice of the bull. Thus the way is opened for them to receive their heavenly inheritance. Second, the value of Jesus' blood is applied in behalf of millions of others who exercise faith in Christ, as shown by the sacrifice of the goat. These will be blessed with everlasting life here on earth, the inheritance that Adam and Eve lost. (Psalm 37:10, 11) On the basis of his shed blood, Jesus carries away the sins of mankind, just as the live goat in a token way carried the sins of Israel off into the wilderness.-Isaiah 53:4, 5.

    As you can see, this basic idea, despite some tweaks, goes waaaay back. The ransom sacrifice is applied to all (not just the 144k) but the 'anointed class' benefit from it straight away by having 'righteousness for life' imputed to them, while it's kinda 'provisional' for everyone else. Their faith in Christ's ransom plus their attaching themselves to the 'anointed class' for safety (add in the antitypical 'city of refuge' doctrine) means that they can be 'friends of God' and 'in line for' salvation! The full extent of Christ's ransom will only be applied to them during the 1000 years. Is it all coming back to you now? LOL.

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    MISERYLOVESELDERS:

    With regard to the number of 'anointed' growing, I totally agree with you that it is because they are hoping life will get 'easier' (i.e. green handshakes) in their new 'calling'. Maybe at some point, they can 'graduate' to being one of the GB members!

    Bottom line: that is what it is all about in religions: people looking to climb their way to the 'top' and looking for an easy life and people to exploit and lord it over. This is the oldest story in the book and one of the reasons I will never get involved with another religion again.

  • designs
    designs

    The thing is it doesn't matter.

    Go into any Church whenever they celebrate the Last Supper and you will see 100's of different styles. One of the Churches I attened passed Grape Juice and Saltine Crackers for geezuz sake.

    Like if you get it wrong the big guy will crush you. There is never an end to superstition

  • Terry
    Terry

    Here we stand in 2011 and still acting like killing animals and sprinkling blood isn't a dysfunctional era in mankind's primitive superstitious past.

    Good golly!

    A super Deity allows His innocent offspring to be tortured and stabbed and executed and it is the most wonderful gift we can possibly imagine!

    Really? Bloody murder of an innocent? Wonderful, heart-warming and acceptable as Love?

    Who is this God trying to appease?

    Why---Himself, of course!

    He is appeasing His own perfect standard by the death of His own superlative Son!

    Really? Appeasing Himself???

    After 6000+ years of punishing humanity for sin because they are "worthy" of death----a complete reversal of policy and lowering of standards!

    The innocent dies and the guilty lives!

    Topsy turvy.

    Black is white. Day is Night.

    IF ALL OF THIS DOESN'T IMMEDIATELY STRIKE YOU AS MORE DYSFUNCTIONAL PRIMITIVISM you just aren't thinking clearly.

    Instead of questioning the entire mythology of primitivism and superstition you are debating just WHO GETS the BENEFIT of all the bloodletting!

    Huh?

    Think about it, for goodness sakes.

    This is sad.

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    This is really ticking me off. After being a Witness for about 25 years, I discovered about a year ago that I didn't have a mediator, AND NOW I've learned that the free gift of the ransom does not apply to me either! And the kicker is, this isn't even new light, supposedly it has been that way since I signed up!

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    Okay. Here's how it works in JW Land:

    1. Jesus died for everybody.

    2. First, the anointed are forgiven of their sins and declared righteous. They become 144,000 "underpriests", etc.

    3. The anointed help Jesus apply the value of the ransom to the great crowd over the course of 1,000 years. Not making that up.

    4. Then, the great crowd is tested once more by Satan. If they pass, they become children of God and are completely forgiven. If they fail, EPIC FAIL'D! SECOND DEATH'D!!

    All the scriptures other Christian groups apply to themselves/everyone, JWs apply only to the anointed. The NT was written primarily to the anointed. The great crowd are not in the new covenant, Jesus is not their Mediator, but they are "beneficiaries of the new covenant". Kind of like if your buddy wins the lottery and because he's your buddy, it's kind of like you won the lottery too. Except you didn't get any money. Your buddy says, "Okay, the lottery folks said I could give you some money, but only if you do exactly as I say. Forever." See? Pretty good deal.

    --sd-7

  • Ding
    Ding

    I'm confused.

    Whenever you point out to a JW from Romans 3-4 and Ephesians 2:8-9 that the Bible says salvation is a free gift, not of works, they immediately counter with part of James 2:26: "Faith without works is dead..." and part of Philippians 2:12: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..."

    Are they saying that the 144,000 are saved WITHOUT any works?

    "Other sheep" are told by the WTS that they constantly have to "exercise faith," i.e. work, work, work.

    Is the WTS saying that the "anointed" DON'T have to "exercise" their faith in order to be saved?

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Good to see you as ever wasblind!

    ListenerGreat scriptures Stephen but they even have that covered by saying the greek scriptures were written for the annointed.

    The scriptures speak for themselves. Let he who has ears hear what they have to say, not the WT lies!

    See below, emphasis added.

    John 1:9-13 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

    9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

    10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

    Galatians 3:22-29 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

    22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

    23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ [ a ] that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

    Sons of God

    26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Footnotes:

    1. Galatians 3:24 Or charge until Christ came

    Romans 8:12-17 (New International Version 1984, ©1984)

    12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 [ a ] And by him we cry, “Abba, [ b ] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.

    Footnotes:

    1. Romans 8:15 Or adoption
    2. Romans 8:15 Aramaic for Father
    Blessings in Christ, Stephen
  • trillaz
    trillaz

    If the Greek scriptures were written for the annointed, then only the annointed should be the ones going do to door according to Acts. That can be a hornets' nest of conflicts with their control and doctrine over the Great Crowd.

  • Ding
    Ding

    Not only does the WTS have a two-class system, but 99.99% of JWs are in the second class.

    The promises don't apply to them, just the residual benefits.

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