What is the US spanish populatation birth rate? Anybody wanna place bets that it's more than 4.7% ... I think I see a correlation.
Jehovah's Witnesses - Once Again the Fastest Growing Faith in the U.S.
by davidl7 99 Replies latest jw friends
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just n from bethel
So the question is - why would there be so many hispanics in the US convert to JW but very little non-hispanics? Not to make this a racial issue - but it is a social issue in the US right now (Arizona anyone?).
since this thread is about statistics (that seem incorrect) - here's another one:
"Latinos are less likely [ ... ] to access the internet, have a home broadband connection or own a cell phone, according to survey findings from the Pew Hispanic Center."
from: pewhispanic.org
Like I said on another thread - I was in Spanish for a number of years last decade. I saw the circuit split 3 times in 5 years. Know how many times the English circuit in the same area has split? Anyone? Anyone? If you answered Zero - you get a prize.
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davidl7
Blacksheep said "
"1154275 members in 2009
+ 35120 baptisms
= 1189395 expected members
- 11894 Deaths at 1%
= 1177501 expected members
- 1178349 actual 2010 members
= (very roughly) 848 extra publishers, over and above the expected increase, in the good ol' USA.
We like to think we are helping people out and that the tide might be turning against the WT, but according to my calculation, (and I hope it's wrong), smacking 'weak in the faith' JWs with doctrine, false prophesies, pedos', NGO, COC, JWN, JWFacts, Six Screens, etc is scaring more back in than it's getting out. "You fail to take into account the growing number of Witness apologist sites that have very convincely responded to accusations and allegations regarding the NGO, so-called false predictions, pedos, etc....More and more Witnesses are now aware for instance that Russell never claimed to be an inspired prophet and that he openly wrote and stated that their may be mistakes in some of the expectations regarding 1914. Most Witnesses never believed allegations regarding those that claimed that they were protecting pedophiles...they knew that the WT had written an article clearly stating that the Christian congregation would not protect a pedophile from secular judicial punishment, and Jehovah's Witnesses were the first to announce a policy of banning anyone who abused children from the position of an MS or elder. They know that they are probably the only faith that expels unrepentant pedophiles from congregation....so maybe that's the reason they keep growing...they do not listen to false stories.
In addition, many individuals have been studying their Bibles, and have come to the conclusion that Jesus is really the Son of God. Upon further researchg, they found out that the Jehovah's Witnesses really believe Jesus is the Son of God, and not God Almighty himself... As a result they have decided to join in the worship of the God and Father of Jesus Christ, as did the early Christians (compare 1 John 4:7-14; Ephe. 1:3, 1:17; 2 Cor. 1:3; Rev. 3:12) Some former Baptists that I met when visiting Dallas, said they were studying Spanish and decided to buy a bi-lingual Bible, sold at their own church...the Spanish version was the Valera, which contains God name in Spanish as "Jehova". Their pastor hated using the name Jehovah in English, and didn't even like to use the name Yahweh. The couple asked the pastor why, and of course, was given the usual argument that Jehovah is a fake name, etc...interestingly...they did some research, and found pro and cons arguements against the pronounciations Jehovah vs. Yahweh...they decided to speak to the Witnesses to get their take on issue. Witnesses explained that they are aware of the arguements, and one of them noted that their appears to a growing number of scholars that are now saying that Jehovah is the correct pronounciation based on some ancient writings, even though most still think is Yahweh. The Witnesses pointed out that no one argues against the name Jesus (as welll as other Bible names), even though that was not the exact way it was pronounced in Greek or Aramic..The former Baptist also compared different Bibles, and found out that the ASV, YLT, BLE, NEB, LB, Websters, Darby, JNT, etc, all contained the name as the form Jehovah, even though their former pastor, who has MS degree in divinity, was saying only the NWT had the name. The pastor didn't even know that the bilingual Bible sold at his church store included the Valera version which has Jehova in Spanish!!! Anyway...to make a long story short, the couple concluded that the Witnesses are teaching the truth and like Jesus they believe in sanctify God's name and making it known. Many stories like these can be repeated over again...Interesting that couple, when I met them were still not baptized, and were preaching to their former church members, even before officially becoming non-baptized publishers with the congregation they attend.
And I mentioned earlier, their is a growing number of Websites that have been responding to the allegations presented by anti-Witness sites. Those are in addition to the official WT site. I will just list a few of my favorites:
http://www.jehovah.to/xlation/index.html
http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/
http://web.archive.org/web/20040517235626/http://hector3000.future.easyspace.com/
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davidl7
I don't know if the 15-minute rule is new...I remember back in mid 1980's a talk was given stating that we should report whatever preaching work we did no matter how little...The elder at the assembly said if its 1 hour or even 30 minutes for the month, you should report what you did. He said everyone circumstances may vary. That point was repeated several times after that, and many times they cited the Bible text of the elderly woman who donated less than a penny, but Jesus said that she in realty did the most...because that was all she could give. I myself use to report 30 to 45 minutes during the month, especially when I studying at college and was working at the same time.
Regarding figures reported - Witnesses do use a very conservative method of counting members. Rodney Stark in his paper "Why Jehovah's Witnesses Grow So Fast", pointed out that fact. And it is true...I remember reading an article that there maybe more active Jehovah's Witnesses than their are Episcopalians, even though Episcopalians report a higher membership figure. Unlike other churches, that count members just for attending church services, the WT only counts publishers, those that preach AND report their preaching activity. So a congregation can have 250 regularly attending their meetings, but only 110 preaching. Only the 110 are counted. In practically all Witness congregations, the attendance figure is at least 2 times higher than the number of publishers. The Operation World yearbook, counts all religious groups by reported members and affiliates. The affiliates figure is usually much higher for the Witnesses.
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just n from bethel
HAHAHA - that's funny - the witness apologetic sites go directly against the society's directions. Many of the apologetic witnesses have been counseled directly by the society and severely reprimanded. The rest have to post anonymously, just like many here on JWN - why? Cause they know they are not in line with the GB. They are actually disobeying Christ according to the Watchtower. Funny thing, JWN started out as a Pro-Witness site.
As for any site turning people away from the org - or steering them back to it - utter nonsense.
My points were about new growth in the USA. More and more Americans today research products online before they buy. Religion included. English growth in the US is zero to negative - has been for years. This is from bethel and the COs.
The stats here show that Hispanics are less likely than other social populations in the US to use the internet, (and imho, especially for in-depth educational research). It's not hard to figure out that there is likely a correlation between recent lack of growth in US English halls, and non-hispanic potential converts researching the JWs online. Also of note, any potentially interested JW convert (RVs as they're called) researching the religion perhaps more often than not does so from neutral sites (not pro JW and not anti JW) like wikipedia and generic religious/creationist research. When doing so, they recognize that JWs fall into a cult-like category at worst, or a fundamentalist sect that still can't provide proof of the Bible's authenticity and believes humans are 6000 years old and a global flood occurred 4000 years ago. Unfortunately, for obvious social reasons that need not be mentioned, hispanics are the least likely in the US to research JWs from a neutral standpoint as could be done so easily online. Guess what? Hispanics convert to JW more than any other segment of the US population, along with their huge families, even though they often really don't understand the core theology of JWs.
And that - as the COs and bethel has confirmed, is where the US growth comes from. Also of note, a 4% growth does not even keep up with the hispanic immigration population growth - so there's really not much to brag about. It's like getting tax credits for having kids. Did my income really increase when I had another kid? What would my colleagues think of my math and accounting ability if I went around after I had another child and said, "I got a raise".
Anyway, one thing I know, I never went to one anti-JW internet site when I left the org in 2010. You know what I read that showed me JWs were absolutely in the wrong? The Bible. Also History and Science text books.
Unfortunately, I did turn in time in the 2010 service year. So I was in those numbers. Won't ever happen again, and that is one statistic you can take to the bank. I don't care if JWs convert every illegal immigrant north of the Rio Grande. Good for them.
What your thread has done though, is reminded us that no matter what - JWs will always think JWs are right. Numbers go up? Wow - little one becomes 1000. Numbers go down (Japan anyone)? Narrow and Cramped is the Road leading to JWs. That's the one thing I miss about being a JW, I was always right no matter what. For reminding us of that, we thank you.
By the Way - you know what other number keeps going up? Memorial Partakers. It won't be long before we'll have over 144,000 active partakers. I'd like to see that yearbook explanation.
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just n from bethel
David said - "In practically all Witness congregations, the attendance figure is at least 2 times higher than the number of publishers."
Uhhh - when's the last time you went to a meeting? What about during CO visit? Know what attendence ratios are? think they're 200% like you claim? Try again. How about - 150%? Wrong again.
Sunday barely gets 90% while the newly combined TMS/service/bookstudy is still ekeing out 75, maybe 80%. Spanish might be a little higher - but I promise you this - it ain't " 2 times higher than the number of publishers."
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just n from bethel
Here's another thing, and I realize my old English congregation is just one, so possibly not representative of all - but in my old hall, in the last 10 years, not one single person has converted to JWs from the door-to-door ministry. Not one. Here's a thread about it:
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slimboyfat
No other church benefits from immigration I suppose only Jehovah's Witnesses.
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maksym
I think the survey is suspect. The survey that reported the increase reports:
"Ranked 20th in size, the Jehovah’s Witnesses denomination reported a 4.37 percent gain in membership, with 1,162,686 members total"
This number is lower than the actual published numbers by the WTBTS. They report:
2010 active publishers 1 178 349, published in the Watchtower.org website (stats for 2010)
2009 active publishers 1 154 275, published in the yearbook 2010 (stats for year 2009)Difference is (Increase) of 24 074. This equalls 2% straightline growth in the United States regardless of deaths, births, new baptisms, or faders.
I personally would consider the published statistics the most accurate. If the WTBTS wants to lie they would have done so in their own print to give it the most weight to JW's.
IMO... I think the survey is skewed or they received inaccurate information deliberately so that a "good image" would be presented. I don't know of any other explanation.
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slimboyfat
Does anyone have access to the 2009 report?
I have a suspicion that the reported 4% increase is one year out of date and relies on comparing the 2008 and 2009 service years. The additional discrepancy in the numbers may possibly be explained by adding the Hawaii total to the United States total. (And Alaska too if it wasn't already combined in 2009) It is only the Watchtower that considers these different lands, an outside body would probably combine them since they are one political unit.
If anyone has the 2009 report (from the 2010 Yearbook) maybe they could add the peak figures for the United States and Hawaii together and see if they equal 1,162,686 to confirm this theory.