Does Genesis 19 condemn Homosexuality?

by brotherdan 116 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Rabbit

  Also, this was not God approved. There are many "sins" that happened before the Mosaic law went into effect where God did not punish the person. There was not as of yet a written code.

  I'm beginning to see a familiar religious theme, especially a JW theme: The "Truth" isn't always true, cause it's not 'new or 'current'light. Mosaic Law MUST have been the NEWLIGHT...back then. Common Human Sense, wasn't good enough?

  Because something is recorded there, that doesn't mean that God approved of it. Lot's daughters schemed to get Lot drunk and to have sex with him. If anyone was to be punished, then it would have been them.

  Shame on God! Didn't He think people of faith might NEED accurate info to base their lives on?

  How do you know that they did not get him extremely drunk, cover their faces, and then come to him?

  Extremely drunk ? Like falling down drunk? I've seen a lot of drunks, they have a difficult time being amorous, ladies just have to lay there, guys...have to want it. Sorry, no matter how ugly, that's how things work.

  Noah was a drunk, too. All the others were drowned. A common theme.

  This was the distinction Peter made—not that Lot was perfect, but that he remained uncontaminated by the actions that were prevalent throughout Sodom. Like Christians today who strive to walk in the light, though they are imperfect (1 John 1:5-10), Lot was a righteous man, who also made some memorable mistakes.

  So, "he remained uncontaminated", I guess Sodomites did not rape their own kids? "Mistakes"...memorable mistakes !!!??? That's special...

  No one is justifying Lot's sins or his daughters. Their sin was recorded and what a shame that is for them.

  Sorry. I know your faith is hanging on the Bible really being God's Word, but, don't ya' think a true god would make sure he was represented -- truly ?

  It upholds Lot as someone respected by God. God sent his angels to save Lot and his family. Lot was spoken of as being righteous. He did some pretty bad things, but comparing him to the rest of the city, he was righteous.

  I don't believe for one second...that not one righteous person could be found nor the idiotic assumption that 'EVERY man, from young to very old' surrounded these supposedly helpless angels to have sex with them. ALL of them were homosexual ?? Sounds a lot like The Flood, "not one righteous...", then, when God "saw what He did, He felt regret..."

  What...was He drunk, too?
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  acolytes

  The mention of Rahab raises the point does god condemn prostitution?

  And iam sure the answer is dependent on circumstance.

  Acolytes
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  brotherdan

  The mention of Rahab raises the point does god condemn prostitution?

  Did you even read the previous posts? The point is that even though they were sinners and doing things that God didn't approve of, they were GRACIOUSLY (try to understand the word) declared righteous. Do you want all of your sins brought up and have people say, "Well acolytes commited these sins and God did not reject acolytes, so it must be ok to..."insert sin here".
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  acolytes

  My point brotherdan is this thread has rightly questiond if god sees homosexuality as a sin. It has also commented on the prostitute Rahab and implied prostitution is a sin. Who are we to judge how god views prostitution..I think we need to be very careful when we layble someone a sinner its not very hospitable. But thanks for your comment and have a great weekend.

  Acolytes
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  peacefulpete

  Sampson was depicted as frequenting prostitutes, The author of the Judah/Tamar story apparently had no issue with it, the point is that some point the role of a ritual priesthood expanded to become moral police. This is another example of an evolving theology.
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  tec

  I think a good way to consider what God condemns is to take a look at what Christ did. Lack of mercy and love and hypocrisy being at the top of the list. Much of the rest might be dependent upon our culture. But things that are done without a care for those less fortunate (the poor, the widows, the orphans) or even to hurt them... those things show lack of love.

  Tammy
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  tec

  Just a side note about Lot being saved.

  Perhaps he was not a 'good' man. I don't know if he has been described as being a 'righteous' man or not - although even Christ made a distinction between a righteous man and a good man.

  BUT...

  Lot did take two men (angels) who came from God and brought them under his roof for protection. So perhaps it is that very deed - this kindness toward ones who belong to God - that saved him.

  How many people would be crying foul if that good deed had seen him destroyed, regardless of whatever else one might think about his character?

  Tammy
• 

  Rabbit

  Tammy

  Lot did take two men (angels) who came from God and brought them under his roof for protection. So perhaps it is that very deed - this kindness toward ones who belong to God - that saved him.

  I might have had respect for this story of Lot, had he offered up himself or fought (using the unbelievable biblical story), but, damn...Tammy...he offered up his daughters...his own flesh & blood, his kids !!!!!

  Please answer me directly: Couldn't Lot's God stop whatever bad thing that was about to befall His very own Angels? Is God that powerless?

  What about showing "kindness towards ones who belong(ed)" to Lot and his wife? Their powerless, vulnerable children?

  IMO, there is NO excuse possible, NO apology possible for Lot's behavior. And, the way he was held up as an example of what God wanted in a leader -- is one of the BIG factors that started me to question the veracity of the Bible. Now I believe whenever "bad" or questionable things happened among certain of God's people -- a 'spin' could always be written up, by the few who could write. And, they were all men -- in a very misogynistic society that protected bad behavior of these same men. Today, the Watchtower's Governing Body does those dirty deeds.

  To me, it is very plain to see, it took me many years to call a spade a spade.
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  laverite

  For anyone interested, there is an interesting commentary that just went up on CNN by J.W. Knust, a Bible scholar:

  http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/09/my-take-the-bible%E2%80%99s-surprisingly-mixed-messages-on-sexuality/?hpt=C2

  Anyone interested in the topic of what the Bible says or doesn't say about sexuality and homosexuality may find the article above of interest. The article could provide an interesting basis for discussion, including comparing what has been discussed here with what this Biblical scholar says in her analysis.

  I'd especially love to hear Leolaia's and Bro. Dan's perspectives on this commentary if they are interested in discussing this.

  Interesting!
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  PSacramento

  First off, same sex relationships ( at least between men) are condemed in the OT and in the NT, lesbianisim is condemed by Paul:

  • Leviticus 18:22

  22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

  • Leviticus 20:13

  13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

  • Romans 1:26-27

  26 For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.