A Concerned Elder Speaks

by Franklin Massey 110 Replies latest jw friends

  • Violia

    They took away a college education for an entire generation and a lot of us fought back ( by getting a college education after we were adults) and made sure our kids got to go to college if they wanted to. Now they are coming after our grandkids. I predict they will lose this. There are too many of us who were around in 1975 and remember it vividly.

  • journey-on

    Higher education doesn't just teach you what to think, but HOW to think for yourself. The WTS cannot afford to have a membership of people that are able to do that. It would destroy them.

  • freetosee

    How will the congregation react when it becomes known that a long serving elder gets removed for letting his children go to university? Has anyone experienced that? Please relate.

  • Violia

    I knewa few who had fathers who were not in the Borg who got to attend college. It seemed to a lot of us that the elders kids were the only ones that were breaking the rules and going to college.

  • The Finger
    The Finger


    Maybe I misread your post.

    I am not JW. I was.

    Although this is the case I agree with the GB on Elders should not serve whilst putting their kids into College or University. I think it would seem to show a lack of faith in the end being close and nobody has to serve as an Elder. God could use stones.

    My kids are in University. One is studying for a Phd in Theology the other is studying with the hopes of becoming a medical doctor. I have nothing against further education. I'm all for it.

    When I was a JW I left school as soon as I was able against the advice of my teachers I even had one of the worst kids in the school walk home with me leaving his car in the school car park trying to talk me out of it. I witnessed to all of them in word and deed. Whether the witness was a good one I can't say but I wasn't a hypocrite.

    In the congregation at the time was an Elder who was raised in the truth and had gone to University and had a very well paid job I thought he was a hypocrite. That's my opinion.

    I also think there is a wider question of as a christian how much one trusts God to provide and where one draws the line with needs and wants, not that it matters.

    If anyone doesnt understand my posts or why I post things don't worry my wife usually doesnt understand me either and she has known me 30years.

  • wobble

    Thanks for explaining yourself Finger, and keep on posting !

    I think you have fingered an interesting aspect to this, the whole farrago of issues will expose hypocrisy from both sides, a guy who hangs on to his position whilst really wishing he had got his kids a proper education, as well as the guy who is in a position now who did get this kids into college in the past are both hypocrites in reality.

    The ripples could well go on for a long way, instead of this just being a tightening of control that the "sheep" roll over and accept.

    This, after all, is not a biblical/doctrinal issue

    This could well be something that bites the WT in the bum big time, I do hope so !

  • Franklin Massey
    Franklin Massey

    Finger, you should be as clear as your last post more often. Thanks for elaborating. This stood out to me:

    I also think there is a wider question of as a christian how much one trusts God to provide and where one draws the line with needs and wants.

    Agreed. But that's between a person and God. Not a person and you. Not a person and the GB. You are hung up on higher education but how far are you willing to carry your logic? If someone gets a new car, are they showing that they don't think the end is near? What if they purchase cable television? What about a new coat or shoes? Heck, if the end is so near, let's just stop paying our bills and ride it out until Armageddon. It's a slippery slope. Part of making informed choices involves examining the past to look for what has worked and what hasn't. Unfortunately, in the WT Organization, many have done with their entire lives what you suggest should be done with college. That is, drop everything because none of it matters since the end is so near. That has proven to be disastrous for many JWs. You draw your line. I'll draw mine. But don't be so quick to judge the manifestation of one's relationship and reliance on God by outward appearance.

    God could use stones.

    Sounds like a good solution. Sure would save everyone from the headaches of fleshing out these conscience related issues. wouldn't it?

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    The Borg doesn't care if membership declines in nations with ready and available education.

    They would rather have three million followers ready to die or kill for them than seven million half-assed JDubs.

    If this move pushes out "the spiritually weak" then the Borg leaders will consider it a win.

  • The Finger
    The Finger

    Franklin Massey

    I'm not hung up on anything. I have always done what I chose to do, with the information I had at hand. Unfortunately sometimes the person giving me the info although claiming to be something, were not what they claimed to be. Hence I was mislead.

    I personally dont believe the end of this system is close. My end is probably alot closer. I am never quick, ask my wife. I and you must make judgements every day concerning people. The judgements that Elders make concerning peoples lives often have very detrimental effects. My opinion is that as a group of JW's they share a community guilt for it.

    In 1969 the district overseer gave his final talk at the circuit assembly and asked if you think you will take that carpet that you are working so hard for thru Armageddon, or that new car. That is the thinking I was brought up with as we lived in the final part of the last days. If a JW no longer believes he is living in the final part he should leave in my opinion. I did.

    My judgements arent so bad the person I mentioned hurt some in the congregation badly with his judicial nonsense. Some years later he was disfellowshipped for similar reasons to the ones he had been so hard on. (If he had been so hard on my daughter it would have been a different matter)

    Thank you for your reply and in the future I will try to be more clear.


    I appreciate your comments

  • dinah

    You guys have made this thread so great.

    Finger, I was holding my breath as I clicked to each page, waiting on a shoe to drop.

    This is just my opinion on education and the GB's demonization of it. A bit of background first.

    My Mom was baptized in 1969 when she was 22 years old. Her grandmother studied with her when she was a teen and "helped" her (ugh!) join the Witnesses. My Mom was told in 1969, that I would probably never even have to start elementary school. I was born in 1968 and I'll be 43 in a couple of months (double ugh!).

    So, not only did my Mom miss out on alot waiting for the "end", she taught me there was no reason to get an education because the end was so very near.

    The reason people want their children to get an education after high school is because they don't want their kids to struggle paying for necessities. It doesn't seem to me that these people are materialist, they are not trying to get rich--they are trying to survive. Has anyone noticed that in America you can't graduate high school, go to work in a factory and survive like you could in the 50's and 60's?

    With only a high school education, the best high school graduates can hope for now is a minimum wage job. Ever tried to pay rent and buy clothes for kids on $7-8 an hour?

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