What is "the Kingdom"?

by Darth Eowyn 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Darth Eowyn

  LOL no, there is no way that I would even consider the JWs.

  And I don't have any illusions that I'm going to find a convert. Of course, I would like them to wake up and leave the organization; heck, even join some other protestant Church that teaches the basics of Christianity correctly would be fine with me. The JW conducting the study is a sister who stopped by my house a couple of years ago. We had discussions then and I was not as prepared as I am now. In fact, there were some questions she asked ( about Catholicism) which I could not answer; but I realized that just because I didn't have the answer doesn't mean that the answer didn't exist. Once I found those answers, they never came back for two years.

  I was hoping that by pointing out the misquotes in their Trinity brochure (and I have the original sources) that a seed of doubt would be planted. While we didn't get into that argument this week, she suggested that I write to the WT and ask for clarification. HA! Like that'll happen. And yes, I got the line that "scholars consider our publications to be very worthy".
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  james_woods

  she suggested that I write to the WT and ask for clarification. HA! Like that'll happen.

  Double HA!! - like they had any clarification, or would even make the slightest attempt to answer you.

  They would just direct you to the nearest local congregation, if they even replied.
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  Chalam

  Welcome Darth Eowyn!

  1 Corinthians 10:12 (English Standard Version)

  12 Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

  2 Peter 3:16-18 (English Standard Version)

  16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

  Blessings in Christ,

  Stephen
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  Darth Eowyn

  @Chalam Thank you. And I shall.

  @James Woods Yes, I do know that they avoid anything associated with non-JW celebrations/birthdays/holidays. It just sticks out to me when they reference the Catholic Church. And yes, I do notice the particular animosity towards Catholicism. I have no bones particularly with people disliking the Church, but at least they should get it right about what the Church actually teaches.

  But getting back to the Kingdom...I am trying to understand if they believe that there is some "event" or grace from God (or whatever you want to refer to it as) which will compel and/or change mankind's nature into behaving for eternity on paradise Earth? Ok, all the bad people/non-JWs are destroyed by God at Armageddon, leaving the faithful masses to rebuild the Earth. Will man be of a different, non-sinful nature then? What is going to make that happen? I am hung up on this issue and I would like to know where to go in the discussion next week. :)
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  DagothUr

  This veneration-worship-prayer issue looks fishy to me. It's like you are married to a woman and she kisses with another man all day long and he fondles her breasts, but they don't have coitus. Only you, as her husband, have the priviledge to have intercourse with her, 30 minutes per day. Are you jealous she kisses with another man? Why? Are you not the only one she's screwing with? She's giving him the worship, you get the veneration! Catholic logic is screwy, like any type of religious logic whatsoever.
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  Listener

  Darth they will tell you that just as Jesus was a perfect human being, Adam and Eve were created perfect too. They had the prospect of living forever if they did not eat the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because they did they became imperfect and death was the end result. Due to the sacrifice Jesus made man will one day be able to reach perfection once again and this will be on paradise earth.
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  james_woods

  Ok, all the bad people/non-JWs are destroyed by God at Armageddon, leaving the faithful masses to rebuild the Earth. Will man be of a different, non-sinful nature then? What is going to make that happen? I am hung up on this issue and I would like to know where to go in the discussion next week. :)

  Strangely, the JWs are really quite silent on these subjects - mostly they just say that Jehovah will take care of everything. To my knowledge, they have never definately stated how infrastructure, government, farming, or anything else will be handled. There was, for example, back in the 1970s rampant speculation over whether man would have CARS in the new system.

  Much was made over a PICTURE in the magazines showing a new world JW plowing a field with a tractor - as if this was a hint we would have gasoline, roads, and cars!!!

  They do say that predatory animals like the lion will be vegatarian, at least hint that all humans will also, and have stated that resurrected new world humans will be in a sexless state. JW people that survive Armageddon, they claim, will still be married - but not people who died before it and were brought back to life. No scriptural bases, of course, but that is the official word from NYC Bethel.

  As to the scientific fact that the earth's Solar system has a very long, but not immortal, life - they just again say that God will take care of things.

  As to the possibility of accidental death (i.e. - falling off a proverbial cliff) - again, God will take care of things.

  It is all really quite undefined (and scientifically silly) when you get into the details.
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  Darth Eowyn

  I find it odd that for a group to claim that they know that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914, they don't have the theological answers or even postulations about what will compel mankind going from sinful to perfect while still alive. Again, it just seems like they're making it up.
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  james_woods

  I find it odd that for a group to claim that they know that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914, they don't have the theological answers or even postulations about what will compel mankind going from sinful to perfect while still alive. Again, it just seems like they're making it up.

  Of course they are making it up. You are aware, aren't you, that they only said Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 AFTER 1914 - because nothing happened in 1914 to show Jesus actually returned? Their previous view was that Jesus returned invisibly in 1874 (post 1874) because he didn't return visibly then either...they postponed his actual coming to 1914 only to get burned on it again. They later prophesied (falsely) that it would be in 1925, later in 1975, and then later - before the death of all the adult witnesses living in 1914. They have had to give up on all these disproven prophesies. Oh - and one other thing - in the first 1000 years of the new system, man is still not converted from sinful to perfect. At the end of the 1000 years they think another judgement will come, along with essentially another armageddon for the wicked of that day - far in the future. Just throwing darts at the wall.
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  aqwsed12345

  Kingdom of God