What is "the Kingdom"?

by Darth Eowyn 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Darth Eowyn

Hello all,
I have been lurking for a couple of months and decided to join because I wanted to get further information.
I am not a JW, ex JW, or even considering becoming a JW. I am a fairly devout, practicing Catholic. Two weeks ago, a couple of JW publishers stopped by to discuss their schtick. Since I enjoy dialoging with others of different faiths, I indulged them and set up a "bible study", which we conducted this past week. They are coming back again next week and wanted to discuss "the kingdom". Now, I know that from my frequent participation in Yahoo Answers R&S, as well as reading these boards, that the JWs believe that millions of them will not go to Heaven, but rather live on 'paradise Earth', etc. But what do they consider to be 'the kingdom'? I just want to be informed before we meet again so that I can try to get them off of their script.
I also suggested that we discuss a couple of other issues which I was concerned about; namely, the blatant misquotations and misrepresentations of Catholic sources throughout the JW literature. I cannot stand this blatant intellectual dishonesty. And the JW obsesssion with all things pagan. If they don't want to celebrate Christmas or other holidays, that's their business. But I wonder if in their attempt to avoid paganism (I am not conceding that mainstream Christianity is pagan or derives from paganism--that is another discussion), they they have inadvertantly become anti-Christ in their nature?
Butterflyleia85

God's government in heaven.
They refer to Matthew 24:14 alot when talking about God's Kingdom...
"And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for the purpose of a witness to all the nations, and then the accomplished end will come"
It's something they look forward too. A reward God will give them for faithfully serving God... He will finially step in on earthly governments and take rule with His government (God's Kingdom). The good news is all the wonderful things brought out in the Bible that God's Kindom accomplishes and provides for us now and in the future.
That's the quick explination.
Butterflyleia85

another scripture John 18:36 Jesus when on trial for his life told Roman governor of Judea:
"My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have gought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source."
So therefore they believe it's not a kingdom ruling on earth but from heaven.
snowbird

It is also their belief that Jesus Christ will be ruling invisibly (the Kingdom) through the "anointed," the only ones of their group who have the hope of going to Heaven.
The rest of JW's will remain on earth and set about the business of converting it into a Paradise.
Just reportin' - not supportin.'
Syl
james_woods

Since I enjoy dialoging with others of different faiths, I indulged them and set up a "bible study", which we conducted this past week. They are coming back again next week and wanted to discuss "the kingdom".
What 'the kingdom' means in practical, down-to-earth terms - is: serving the orders of the WTBTS down to the smallest detail of life. They think that the WTBTS, and ONLY the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, (specifically: its Governing Body) is the representative of God (and therefore God's kingdom) here on earth. Their local churches are therefore called "Kingdom Halls".
I cannot stand this blatant intellectual dishonesty. And the JW obsesssion with all things pagan.
They are actually a dangerous mind control cult. It is all about "obsession" and thus has no place for "intellectual honesty".
BTW - It is not just over Catholic holidays - they actually think that the American Thanksgiving Day is somehow pagan. But, historically, the Jehovah's Witnesses have shown a particular animosity toward the Catholic Church.
Finally-Free

According to JW theology, the kingdom will execute all men, women, and children at armageddon. (Daniel 2:44)
They believe that only JWs will survive into a "paradise earth" that is to be governed by this kingdom. If you ask them about it, they'll dance around it, but that is essentially their belief. They won't honestly acknowledge it to someone who isn't yet fully indoctrinated.
W
Butterflyleia85

***g7/06p.30FromOurReaders***
TheBible’sViewpoint—ShouldYouPraytotheVirginMary? (September 8, 2005) I admire Jehovah’s Witnesses because you are irreproachable in your conduct and your magazines have done me much good. However, how can you say that we should not ask favors of Mary? She intercedes with the Father for us so that we can be at peace.
E. R., Spain

"Awake!"

responds: As the article explained, nowhere does the Bible authorize us to pray to anyone other than God. According to Catholic priest and writer Andrew Greeley, "the Mary symbol links Christianity directly to the ancient religions of mother goddesses." Thus, the veneration of Mary has pagan, not Christian, roots. This may be a new thought to many of our readers, and we encourage such ones to examine the Bible to find out what it really teaches. Many of Jehovah’s Witnesses were once Catholics, but, upon studying God’s Word, they learned that God does not want us to pray through anyone except Jesus Christ, our only intercessor. (Hebrews 7:25) For more information, see the book "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" Chapter 15, entitled "Worship That God Approves," discusses the importance of conforming our beliefs to the Holy Scriptures.

Just one example why they don't have Cathlic views... They believe in Jesus it's just they "inadvertantly" hold their veiw point to highly like it's just through Jesus himself when actually they are being lead by the "Governing Body" to choice the way they should live through their interpetations of what Jesus says throught the scriptures. But not to be rude isn't that what Cathlic's do to listen and be guided though the Pope?
I'm just going to stay neutral to the whole thing...
Aurelius

WT teachings are that the Kingdom of God aka Kingdom of the Heavens is simply a Government. It is ruled by Jesus Christ and the 144,000.
Matthew 25:31 - 46 - Speaks of the all the nations gathered before Jesus they are then separated into sheep from the goats. The sheep enter the Kingdom and the Goats everlasting cutting off.
You are either a sheep or a goat and there are only two destinations... the Kingdom or Everlasting cutting off.
Sounds like the Kingdom is more than just a government, unless of course when Jesus returns to judge there will only be 144,000 faithful ones!!!
Also the evildoer who was executed with Jesus asked Jesus to remember him when he (Jesus) when into his Kingdom. Jesus responded that you will be with me in paradise. Again, appears the Kingdom and Paradise are one of the same. Luke 23: 42-43.
Jesus taught that you MUST be born again in order SEE or ENTER the Kingdom of God - John 3: 5 and 7. The WT teach that only the 144,000 enter the Kingdom, therefore, they are the only ones who need to be born again.
The Bible teaches that Paradise is part of the Kingdom; everlasting life is part of the Kingdom, therefore, an entry requirement is being Born again.
The WT teachings on the Kingdom are wrong and destructive therefore will result in many not entering the kingdom. Reminds me of the what Jesus said to the Pharisees... that they shut up the Kingdom of the heavens before men, since you do not enter yourself - Matthew 23:13
Darth Eowyn

@Butterflyleia85
Catholics do not worship Mary. This is a common mistake among non-Catholics and even some nominal Catholics that prayer = worship. Catholics ask Mary and the Saints, whom we believe to be alive in Heaven to pray for us. I know a lot of people will hear the prayer such as the 'Hail Mary' and think that it is worshiping her, but veneration, as defined by the Church is not the same as worship due to God and God alone. It is no different that when person asks a friend or relative to pray for them. Many non-Catholics also assume that because they think we "pray to" Mary, that we do not pray to God. That is also not true. The entire Mass is a prayer and offering to God The Father.
No, it is not rude to ask questions :) The major difference between Catholicism and protestant groups is that Catholicism is historically backed, whereas the Governing Body is not. Each Catholic Bishop can trace his spiritual roots/ancestors all the way to the Apostles themselves. This is called Apostolic Succession and it gives validation to the doctrines and practices which have been carried forth from the 1st century; a quick read of The Divine Liturgy of St. James or The Didache gives the Church extremely powerful evidence that it is the Church of the 1st century. With this historical tie to the 1st century comes authority, since Catholics believe that Jesus made Peter the first Pope (well, the word Pope didn't come about until later, but just for the sake of the discussion here...). Following Peter was Linus, Cletus, Clement, etc How far back can the Governing Body go? Where is their authority?
Since the Bible was compiled by Catholics, for Catholics, the Church has credibility in how it is to be interpreted. With the Church, there is at least a sense of 'the historical'; with the JWs, I get the distinct inpression that they are making it up as they go along. So yes, I do trust the Pope and the Magesterium when it comes to the faith.
As far as the paganism is concerned, I think that the JWs get tripped up on this. If they want to claim certain things such as veneration of Mary is akin to pagan goddess worship, Christmas is Saturnalia, and the Trinity, then they must compare the rest of Christianity as well, such as Virgin Birth, Resurrection, the Son of God, etc. They do not understand the distinct natures of biblical literature vs. mythical/pagan literature.
james_woods

Well, it looks like they are not going to easily ensnare Darth Eowyn into the cult.
But, tell me - are you going through this "bible study" (and coming here) because you think you may be able to convertTHEM?
I can assure you that it is almost never possible to convert a dedicated JW via outside religious arguments - they are trained 24/7 that only they know the truth about religion and every other religion is wrong, pagan, or even satanic.
The only witnesses that leave (like most of us here on this site) - have left because we self-discovered (or discovered with the help of ex-witness friends or relatives) what is wrong with the fundamental teachings of the WTBTS organization.
Anyway, I admire your patience with them - just don't get your hopes up that you will be able to convince them of anything.

What is "the Kingdom"?

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