"Top 10 Grievances Against the Bible"

by leavingwt 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OnTheWayOut
    The points raised in items #8 and #9 above were totally unfamiliar to me when I was a JW.

    Those points are an issue only in the minds of people that don't understand Christianity or the development of the NT (canon or otherwise).

    Quite the opposite, I say. People outside of Christianity who endeavor to learn about Paul's writings and history or the Book of John do well to see what's what.

    On the other hand, JW's "don't understand Christianity or the development of the NT" and this is not an issue at all for them because they are happy to remain ignorant and just accept what they are told.

    I like the list. Number 1 can lead to circular arguments, so I would throw it out. Number 3 and 10 could somehow be combined. That leaves a great 8.

  • Finally-Free

    PSac, Paul had his good points too. It was mostly his attitude toward women that rubbed me the wrong way.

    About that scripture, you triggered a memory. Our TMS overseer started out an instruction talk by saying, " If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have sense stress, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal." Obviously he used the NWT rendition of this verse.

    I spent the next 12 years working on 'sense stress and modulation'. I was very happy when a new TMS overseer kicked me off the school for not appreciating it enough.


  • snowbird

    LOL @ Finally-Free!!!

    You are one messy Canadian!



    Top 10 grievances against the Bible..

    #1..The only Flavour is Vanilla..


    ..................... ...OUTLAW

  • AiAi

    My #1 complaint: no pop up pictures. WTF? How am I supposed to pay attention?

    And I have always found Paul interesting and progressive in a lot of things...overall he has seemed to have a very balanced opinion on things. As long as you agree women shouldnt talk then he has a good opinion on almost everything lol.

    My biggest problems correspond with #2,3,10. And what was the deal with that fig tree? it was out of season! be patient!

  • Darth plaugeis
    Darth plaugeis

    My #1 is....

    How many Centuries and How many Men Women and Children Died Becuse of this book.....

    Mostly because.."You don't believe our view?..... Well God wants you dead then.... In the Name Of Jesus!!!"

  • Nobleheart

    I also noted Paul's great influence in Christianity compared with the other 12 apostles, who except Peter aren't as present as I'd like them to be. (James and Jude weren't from the original 12 either). You also said: "It's undeniable that WT and many others have setup their legalistic framework of rules and regulations based upon (what may or may not be) Paul's writings."

    Compared to how Jesus saw women and treated them (samaritan woman, martha & mary, mary magdalene), he gave them importance by revealing them information about his identity and resurrection.

    Then we have a different view with Paul talking about women's subjection, women having to learn in silence, not being allowed to teach men, women being kept safe by childbearing, women having to cover their heads, etc. I was always a bit offended at these comments of his. Why did he have to remind women that: a) they were created for the sake of men, b) they sinned first, by being misled and consequently led man into sin? If Jesus' sacrifice covered all sins, why did he have to remind them of these things? Weren't they all bought with the same price, and called by Jesus as brothers/sisters to share his kingdom with him? Paul does come across as misogynistic kind of like Rutherford.

    8. Speaking of Paul, Paul's role is a little too important in early Christianity. He never met Jesus, yet he supposedly explains Christianity with authority. He has a completely different message from Jesus' supposed words. A lot of Biblical inconsistency right there. Why should anyone believe anything he said? None of it was of a nature that couldn't have come from psychosis, imagination, or calculation. If he was divinely inspired, he could have set people straight about the Sun, for instance.

  • PSacramento
    PSac, that quotation from "Paul" also appears in the Essene Gospel of Peace. Chances are, considering the way the Roman church councils put the Bible together, that "Paul" was the plagiarist.

    Considering the stuff we have from the Essenes is dated UP TILL the end of the 1st century, hwo plagurised whom?

    Personally I think that NO ONE took from anyone.

  • PSacramento
    PSac, Paul had his good points too. It was mostly his attitude toward women that rubbed me the wrong way.

    COnsider what Paul says about these women in Romans:

    16 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant a of the church in Cenchrea. 2 I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me.

    3 Greet Priscilla b and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus. 4 They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them.

    5 Greet also the church that meets at their house.

    Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.

    6 Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you. 7 Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

    8 Greet Ampliatus, whom I love in the Lord. 9 Greet Urbanus, our fellow worker in Christ, and my dear friend Stachys.

    10 Greet Apelles, tested and approved in Christ.

    Greet those who belong to the household of Aristobulus.

    11 Greet Herodion, my relative.

    Greet those in the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord.

    12 Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord.

    Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord.

    13 Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too.

    14 Greet Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermes, Patrobas, Hermas and the brothers with them.

    15 Greet Philologus, Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas and all the saints with them.

    16 Greet one another with a holy kiss.

    All the churches of Christ send greetings.

    Consider that the ONLY things that are written "against" women are in his letter to Timothy, a letter almost universally viewed as NOT being written By Paul and perhaps your view of Paul is not 100% correct.

    Yes he was over zealous and arrogant and short tempered at times, he was afterall only Human, Yes he came off as a pompus windbag at times, but that was his style.

    Don't like it? that's OK, you cna just follow or focus on the other Apostles or Jesus if you prefer.

  • Heaven

    Great thread, LWT! And some great comments so far. Looking forward to others comments as they see this. A few of my personal grievances in addition to the list are:

    1) Why wasn't slavery abolished in the 10 Commandments and then again/or by Christ in the NT?

    2) The misogynistic theme throughout.

    3) The complete fabrication of the story of the flood.

    4) The story of Genesis and the lie God told, not Satan.

    5) The imbalance of a completely male dominated theism.

    6) The Bible being entirely written by men.

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