I also like how they completely rejected the symbol of the fish and then justified their use of the Watchtower (which is also a VERY pagan symbol in itself). Hypocrites.
What is the JW view of the Ichtus (Fish) christianity symbol?
by james_woods 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
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james_woods
The Bible, however, sets forth no visible symbol for Christianity. Christians today, therefore, must be on guard not to adopt such a symbol. For example, watchtower-like designs appear on some buildings and Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses. There is nothing wrong with these in themselves. Possibly they may help persons to identify property owned by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Nothing wrong with Watchtowers.
While visible symbols have always been a feature of non-Biblical religions, they were absent from Christianity at its beginning. As in the first century C.E., so today, true Christians must conform to the Scriptural standard: "We are walking by faith, not by sight."—2 Cor. 5:7.
Well, wait a minute - that would seem to indicate that Watchtowers are visible symbols and were absent from Christianity. But we like Watchtowers as a visible symbol anyway.
Objects dated as far back as the second century C.E. have been found bearing this figure along with the Greek word for fish, ICHTHÝS. This is understood by many as a cipher for the Greek expression IesousCHristosTHeouYiosSoter, meaning "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior." Is the fish a truly Christian symbol?
OK, so the fish is historically the oldest (or at least as old as any other) ancient Christian symbol. But it is not "truly" Christian for JWs - we like the Watchtower symbol better. Clear as mud.
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Leolaia
BTW, there is no evidence that Dagon had anything to do with fish. The notion comes from a late folk etymology and from a 19th-century conjectural emendation of 1 Samuel 5:4, which is generally rejected today. The evidence instead indicates that Dagon was a god of grain and agriculture (who was the father of Baal and, at least for some, was the brother of El).
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BurnTheShips
Are there other symbols that I can't recall?
The Good Shepherd.
The Anchor.
Spelled out in Greek, "Fish" is an acrostic for "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour".
The Chi-Ro became popular in the 4th century.
BTS
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heathen
The only symbol you're allowed to have is that of the pattented watchtower . The only true symbol . I can see the arguement tho that the fish symbol is used by everyone else therefore to seperate from them they chose another one so as not to be mistaken for them.
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brotherdan
They also forget that Paul held the cross to be something special. It was not to be worshiped of course, but it was to be respected. He regularly taught about the "power of the cross".
1Cor 1:17,18 - For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
So their claim that "the Bible, however, sets forth no visible symbol for Christianity" is just not true. The cross WAS respected. There are markings of the cross and the icthys in various parts of the Roman catacombs. So their claims here just don't hold any water.
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james_woods
Brotherdan: I also like how they completely rejected the symbol of the fish and then justified their use of the Watchtower (which is also a VERY pagan symbol in itself). Hypocrites.
The Awake: There is nothing wrong with these (watchtowers) in themselves. Possibly they may help persons to identify property owned by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Yes, the hypocrisy is stunning. They do not like "visible symbols", but Watchtowers "may help persons to identify property owned by Jehovah's Witnesses".
Well, isn't that exactly what any other religious "visible symbol" does? The Cross, the Star of David, the Fish symbol?
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ProdigalSon
And yet Jesus picked all these fishermen to be apostles.... the symbology is totally lost on JW's because of their demonization of the Zodiac. The ancient Jews fully believed in the Zodiac as the Mosaic in the floor of the Temple indicated. The OT prohibitions against consulting the stars for information came from the black magician Ezra.....Genesis 1:14 clearly says the stars were put in the sky to serve as SIGNS.
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Larsinger58
As far as Christian symbolism goes, it seems that the first coming symbolism was linked to a DOVE, but the second coming consistent symbolism is the eagle.
As far as JWs and symbolisms go, though, they can hardly point to others using the fish when in the beginning all their books had Freemasonry and Templars symbolism (i.e. cross and crown, winged disk, etc.) on them. Included in pagan symbolism, though more subtle, is the representation of the fertility goddess Artemis by a watchtower, particularly with battlements on it. The battlements represent the breasts of the goddess. The "tower goddess" or "goddess of fortresses" has always had anxient pagan significance, not sure why. Possibly linked to the original tower of Babel perhaps as a symbolism opposed to Yahweh.
So no matter what rhetoric might be in the Watchtower about how unofficial using the fish symbol is, their secret cultic members instituted the Watchtower with battlements in honor of Artemis and that's what the Watchtower itself represents. So using spurious Christian or pagan symbolisms is part of their own area of expertise, which means they can hardly criticize others.
I think you can find images of Artemis around on the net where it shows her with a crown of Watchtowers, so the Watchtower is in no way an incidental image. The cultic Bible Students just got smart and isolated themselves from the more popular pagan Mystery symbolisms such as the cross and crown of the Templars and the winged disk and substituted it for the more subtle Watchtower. Originally they showed both the wall with battlements, also a symbol of the goddess, along with the tower. Now the tower with battlements is combined even though as noted, the tower with battlements was clearly linked to Artemis.
WINGED SUN DISK:
http://ctr.reslight.net/images/sundisk1.jpg
The "tower goddess" is somewhere out there on the net but I couldn't find it right away. I have a personal copy of Artemis with her watchtowers, maybe I'll try to post it on YouTube if there is enough interest.
ciao
LS
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Band on the Run
I love the Wt stating the earliest Christians did not use it. This a completely false statement. No one knows whether this was around or whether other symbols existed. Everything in our culture today derives from pagan culture. The Holy Land scares me. I stood in the catacombs under the Vatican. True Christians buried each other there. They were persecuted, which is a good measure of what is early Christian. The tour priest kept referring to the tomb of what was a very tall Christian lady. He kept looking in my direction. Perhaps at the resurrection of the dead this true Christian and I could discuss the benefits and disadvantages of being tall Christian women.
The GB was not present during Jesus' early ministry and immediately thereafter. They cannot assert if Mary was buried with signs. Some of us can embrace uncertainty, particularly about tangential matters. The Gospels and Paul's earliest letters do not address whether or not the signs were present. Personally, I love the cross around my neck.
Jesus was very cryptic about whether he believed He was the messiah. The thoughts are put in another's words.
The Witness condemn Christian symbolism. The days of the week are pagan yet those are ok. They are Jesus lite. The early church councils fleshed out doctrines for uniformity of belief. There is no evidence these early Christians were venal. What is clear is that they were not Witnesses. Not one of them was a Jehovah's Witness. Peter, martyred, not a Jehovah's Witness. James, brother of Jesus, not a Christian. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles and formulator of Christianity more than Jesus, not a Witness. Finally, Jesus of Nazareth, later the Christ, a Jew, not a Jehovah's Witness. Mary Magdalene, no whore, feminist, funded Jesus, not a Jehovah's Witness. Mary, Martha and Lazarus, Jews,not Jehovah's Witnesses. Stephen, first martyr (not counting Jesus), not a Jehovah's Witness.
They dared to question Jesus. Rivalries existed. Not Jehovah's Witness. Ignatius, Augustine, not Jehovah's Witnesses. Ignatius, facing the lions, not a Jehovah's Witness. Jesus was educated. He could have formulated a long list of mandatory beliefs. He did not. I will stand with the martyrs before I ever stand with the Witnesses.
It never astounds me what the Witnesses will try to pass of as certainty. The cross could be polka dots. Rather than a know what it is impossible to know, I shall be a fool for Christ, for the folly of this world is life itself.
