by james_woods 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
The thread about the cross got me to thinking about this - I think I read somewhere that the earliest known Christian relic was a mosaic display of the fish symbol - which was taken as a sign of Christianity.
Has the watchtower ever explained why they avoid the use of this symbol?
Have they ever explained why it is OK for them to use the watchtower as a symbol but not this?
What is the JW view of the Ichtus (Fish) christianity symbol?
Peter Publisher: Can I use a Jesus Fish?
watchTower of Bibel: Do Christians use it?
Peter Publisher: Yes.
watchTower of Bibel: So don't use it.
Peter Publisher: Why?
watchTower of Bibel: We are no part of this world blah blah blah.
Peter Publisher: But the earliest Christians used it! We are a return of true Christianity before the Great Apostasy, so why can't we?
watchTower of Bibel: Because "shut up", that's why. And there was a pagan fish god. And how dare you question us. Your elders are going to speak with you.
BTS
This is a picean symbol that refers to Dagon the fish god, therefore it is a pagan symbol.
No...I guess they are against all symbols used by "Bab the Great".. They would not like the Watchtower to be seen as a symbol....Idolatry and all that. They do not like it if dubs put it on jewelry and the like
I knew they rejected it, but it occurred to me just now that I have never actually read anything about the reason for this in their literature.
What event is the Great Apostacy?
I was told that they agreed with Two Babs author Hissop and attributed it and mitre hats to Dagon or some other ancient fishman god. As attractive as it might appear, its rather silly. Actually it appears to have been a bit more esoteric. It has to do with the popular Jewish and early Christian gemetria, numerology. The name Jesus calculates to 888 and he was referred to as the 8's in some early writings. Gemetria for the 153 fish story is interesting as the greek word for fish calculates to 1224 which is 8X153. Further the gemetria drawn out formed an intersection of two circles. Hence the fish's appearance of having been formed by the intersecting of 2 circles in many cases. The usual acrostic (ΙΧΘΥΣ)explanation for the fish symbol appears to be a secondary reason for the popularization of the symbol not its origin.
That I know of, I don't see any of our vehicles with any symbols attached to show that we're JWs. Actions speak louder than any symbol.
Strange how so many convicts and people of questionable character have the symbol of the cross hanging on their necks, tattooed on, or showing on their vehicles, when their demeanor and behavior is not Christ-like whatsoever!
We're best known by our preaching work, and that's exactly how we like it!
DY
The fish and lamb predate the cross as logo for Christianity. It is very interesting b/c mainstream Christianity believes in the cross as the central tenet of Christianity. The nature of Jesus and Christ seem more impt than a reminder of one miracle. I saw both at the Vatican museums. We toured the catcombs under St. Peter's and I saw fish there but not crosses.
It is more than one fish so it had to have special meaning to them as a community. We don't know so much about the earliest forumulations of Christianity. Paul seems to be a cross man; a Trinity fashioner. James appears to be Jesus as not quite God. The leap from a Jewish conception of God as transcedent to the later view of immanence and transcedence must have been gradual. It is of central importance to Jews and Christians yet the gospel writers don't address it. There are some very early credal statements in Paul's authentic letters.
Preaching door to door does not address whether Jesus was the son of man. Insurance salesmen and kitchen installers go door to door. The apostles went from being mediocre and none too bright in the gospels to martyrdom within a few years. The most fundamental questions humans address universally are raised. Yes, JWs are known for invading privacy and disturbing the peace of people along with constantly changing wacko positions. Jesus does return to judge the living and the dead. He needs to set examples of efficacy. Mother Theresa and those who toil in prisons, those who feed the hungry and heal the sick with courage are present. Some JW door knocking zombies are also being judged. Which one followed Jesus' express commandments? What you do for the least of these, you do for me! I've been in hospices. The JWs don't care for their least, let along the least of Jesus.
Interesting PP. I know the acrostic is explicit in one of the Sybilline Oracles...might be worthwhile to check the presumed date. I could also do a search in the TLG to see what hits I get in the literature of the church fathers.
