How should I reply?

by hotchocolate 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    DJeggnogg said: " From the perspective of Jehovah's Witnesses, if a Christian should actually have greater affection for their disfellowshipped family members, .......than they do for Jesus, as Jesus himself says three times at Matthew 10:37, 38, then that person "is not worthy of me;

    DJeggnogg also said: " Anyone that worships Jesus is really worshipping a nonexistent god, so, in effect, that worship goes to "the god of this system of things," Satan the Devil, who accepts all worship that is not based on truth. (2 Corinthians 4:4) "

    In my observation Jesus is becoming non existent with each publication in WT world

  • hotchocolate
    hotchocolate

    DJEggnog, my initial email read like this:

    Just wanted to say that I love you heaps and miss you. It sucks that religion has the power to control the fate of our relationship, but I will never regret the decision to have freedom. You may not get it yet but my dearest wish is that one day things become clearer for you and you'll understand. x Nothing controversial or provocative, simple and loving I think. I was reading your response with regard to Jesus coming between families, I wonder if you are writing this as devil's advocate, or whether you believe that yourself? The Bible contradicts itself so often that it is possible to back up any belief a person wishes to choose by using the appropriately matching scriptures. I have no doubt that whatever I write, including direct quotes from the Awake, will be twisted to fit what the Society wants him to believe. That doesn't change the fact that the Awake did in fact make a very succinct and poignant statement in that no one should have to choose between family and religion, and no scriptural twisting can take the truth away from that statement. With regard to prayer though, you said:

    - but to whom exactly does @I quit! or does anyone else that leaves off from worshipping Jehovah pray?

    Well, Encyclopaedia Britannica talks about prayer being an ancient form of spiritual expression. We see contemporary tribespeople directing their prayers to various numina (spiritual powers): the dead, the divinities of nature, protective gods or actor gods, the Supreme Being, or a feminine divinity linked to the earth (i.e., the great mother). Hindus pray to various gods and goddesses. For many Buddhists, there is no Supreme God, and prayer instead expresses an aspiration to pull new energy or a purifying influence into their life, to inspire wisdom and compassion for others. Out of every 100 people on this planet, 67 of them are NOT CHRISTIAN. I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone's beliefs, but it does seem to me that many Christians have their head up their own bottoms when it comes to understanding that most of the world don't believe in Jesus, nor the Bible - myself included. So who do I pray to? I DON'T.

  • ESTEE
    ESTEE

    I feel sorry for your brother.

    I am proud of you for trying to keep in touch...and I am sorry you received a cruel response from someone who claims he is a follower of Jesus. But, I would not judge him, as he must follow his soul path, which in this case might be to experience life on the inside of a cult.

    If you pray, you might pray for him. Myself, I put the names of my six brothers into a bowl and send positive vibes. I feel better doing something to deal with their separation from me.

    Love,

    ESTEE

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    The context of what @jwfacts quotes is regarding whether someone, who is one of Jehovah's Witnesses, should feel forced to worship in a way that he or she finds unacceptable,

    See? Told'ya, dear Equinox (again, may you all have peace!).

    or whether a Christian should be made to choose between the dictates of his or her beliefs and those of his or her own family.

    While it is true that such a choice may present itself to those who belong to Christ (as members of his Body), dear djeggnog (peace to you!)... Jehovah's Witnesses aren't christians. Some of them are false christs (anointed) true, but most of them don't even claim to have received the promised holy spirit... which is what MAKES them christians (i.e., anointed/chosen persons). None have actually received it... because if they had they wouldn't need a "visible" organization; they would only need that spirit. But, like you, they have been misled, just as one who DID receive such spirit wrote (and which neither you or they have obviously read... or just choose to blatantly ignore):

    "These things I write YOU about those who are trying to mislead YOU. And as for YOU , the anointing that YOU received from him remains in YOU , and YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught YOU , remain in union with him." John 2:26, 27 (NWT)

    You don't get THOSE verses because you don't understand THESE verses:

    "He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him." John 6:54-56 (NWT)

    and...

    I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. Every branch in me not bearing fruit he takes away, and every one bearing fruit he cleans, that it may bear more fruit. Y OU are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to YOU . Remain in union with me, and I in union with YOU. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remains in the vine, in the same way neither can YOU , unless YOU remain in union with me. I am the vine, YOU are the branches. He that remains in union with me, and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; because apart from me YOU can do nothing at all. If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is cast out as a branch and is dried up; and men gather those branches up and pitch them into the fire and they are burned. If YOU remain in union with me and my sayings remain in YOU, ask whatever YOU wish and it will take place for YOU. My Father is glorified in this, that YOU keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples." John 15:1-8

    -- but to whom exactly does @I quit! or does anyone else that leaves off from worshipping Jehovah pray? No prayer can properly be directed to Jesus; all such requests must be directed to Jehovah through Jesus Christ,

    You are only partially correct, dear one. While it is true that one should only PRAY to the Most Holy One of Israel, one can most CERTAINLY approach and make request of Christ:

    "Also, whatever it is that YOU ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. If YOU ask anything in my name, I will do it." John 14:13, 14 (NWT)

    Indeed, one has to approach HIM... FIRST... to even make request so as to GO BEFORE the Most Holy One of Israel:

    "I am... the Way... and the Truth... and the Life. NO ONE comes to the Father, except THROUGH ME." John 14:6 (NWT)

    Just spouting the words, "in Jesus name" doesn't get you IN, dear one... and if you said such words AFTER your prayer, it wasn't heard. Because you never asked for... and thus received... PERMISSION TO ENTER before the Father. You can't just waltz on BY him. Sure, the Way is now open to us... but you have to go THROUGH that Way. Meaning, you have to go THROUGH the Holy... in order to get in before the MOST Holy). Just like Israel had to go to Joseph then in order to either speak to Pharaoh or to even ask for some of his grain (seriously, do you think they could just pass on by him and simply sashay on into Pharaoh's throne room??? We can't even do THAT with earthly kings, dear one!)... we literally have to go TO... and THROUGH... Christ NOW.

    Your position as set out here, however... as falsely taught by the WTBTS... totally and absolutely DISREGARDS not only my Lord's words that:

    “Y OU are searching the Scriptures, because YOU think that by means of them YOU will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. And yet YOU do not want to come to me that YOU may have life. I do not accept glory from men, but I well know that YOU do not have the love of God in YOU. I have come in the name of my Father, but YOU do not receive me; if someone else arrived in his own name, YOU would receive that one. How can YOU believe, when YOU are accepting glory from one anotherand YOU are not seeking the glory that is from the only God?" John 5:39, 44 (NWT)

    and...

    "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. He that puts faith in me, just as the Scripture has said, ‘Out from his inmost part streams of living water will flow.’” However, he said this concerning the spirit which those who put faith in him were about to receive; for as yet there was no spirit, because [Jesus] had not yet been glorified." John 7:37, 38

    but the Most Holy One of Israel's, as well:

    “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him.” Matthew 17:5 (NWT)

    That Son TOLD us what to do... LONG before he ever arrived in the flesh:

    " Why have the nations been in tumult
    And the national groups themselves kept muttering an empty thing?

    The kings of earth take their stand
    And high officials themselves have massed together as one
    Against [Jehovah] and against his anointed one,

    [Saying:] “Let us tear their bands apart
    And cast their cords away from us!”

    The very One sitting in the heavens will laugh;
    [Jehovah] himself will hold them in derision.

    At that time he will speak to them in his anger
    And in his hot displeasure he will disturb them,

    [Saying:] “I, even I, have installed my king Upon Zion, my holy mountain.”

    Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah;He has said to me: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father.

    Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance
    And the ends of the earth as your own possession.

    You will break them with an iron scepter,
    As though a potter’s vessel you will dash them to pieces.”

    And now, O kings, exercise insight; Let yourselves be corrected, O judges of the earth.

    Serve [Jehovah] with fear
    And be joyful with trembling.

    KISS THE SON, that He may not become incensed And YOU may not perish [from] the way,
    For his anger flares up easily.
    Happy are all those taking refuge in him." Psalm 2:1-12

    so how does one anyone that marginalizes Jehovah by praying to Jesus that your brother will one day 'get over' believing Jehovah's Witnesses to be a part of "the one true religion" that is serving Jehovah? Is such a prayer in harmony with God's will?

    First, it absolutely IS in harmony with God's will! The Most Holy One of Israel does NOT want us to worship Him by giving our obedience to a "golden calf" that man made up while they're waiting for the TRUE Mediator to return "down from the mountain" (Zion). He has NO visible entity... certainly not an idol made by the people's valuables (which is what the WTBTS is!)... nor any "visible organization"... other than the Body of His Son. The last visible representation was the temple at Jerusalem... which temple was destroyed after the ORGANIZATION connected to it... the temple priesthood and worship via the Law... was rejected by Him. ALL of that was replaced... by His Son... the Truth (John 14:6) and Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17 - check your Ref. Bible appendix!)... through which Spirit and Truth is the ONLY way to acceptably worship God.

    That it IS God's will, however, is borne out in the verse you yourself included, 1 John 5:14. However, you left out WHO it was that John was referring to there, so I am directed to include it:

    "If we receive the witness men give, the witness God gives is greater, because this is the witness God gives, the fact that he has borne witness concerning his Son. The [person] putting his faith in the Son of God has the witness given in his own case. The [person] not having faith in God has made him a liar, because he has not put his faith in the witness given, which God as witness has given concerning his Son. And this is the witness given, that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has this life; he that does not have the Son of God does not have this life. I write YOU these things that YOU may know that YOU have life everlasting, YOU who put YOUR faith in the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that, no matter what it is that we ask according to his will, he hears us. Further, if we know he hears us respecting whatever we are asking, we know we are to have the things asked since we have asked them of him."

    The "him" here, dear one... is the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the SON of God and His Christ. The NAME of that One... the name in which we must put FAITH... is JAHESHUA. The One who comes... in the name of JAH (Psalm 68:4).

    I mean, you wouldn't really expect Jehovah to affirmatively answer any request that is not in accord with his will, would you?

    Absolutely not. No more than we should expect Him to answer one that was uttered in total disregard for... and bypass of... His Son.

    You HAVE a mediator, dear djeggnogg: Christ. And no other. He is the ONLY One who can open the way to you... the ONLY One who can lead you into ALL truth... the ONLY One who can resurrect you TO life... because he... and ONLY he... is the Way... the Truth... AND the Life. You cannot... WILL not... live forever... indeed, be resurrected TO life... outside of a union with him. And you CANNOT be in union with him... unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood:

    I am the bread of life. Y OUR forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give ismy flesh in behalf of the life of the world. ... Most truly I say to YOU , Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when YOUR forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will live forever.”John 6:48-58

    You have been misled, dear djeggnogg... and being misled, yet:

    "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. Mathew 24:24

    May you be given ears to hear, if you wish them... so as to get the sense of these truths, as well as the warning to "GET OUT OF HER, my people... if you do not wish to share in her sins... and receive part of her plagues!" May you also receive ears to hear, if you wish them, when that Spirit, Christ, and his Bride say to YOU:

    "Come! Take 'life's water'... which is the holy spirit of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... the "oil of exultation"... which water/spirit/oil... is poured out from the inmost parts of His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the chosen One of JAH... FREE!"

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

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