Why does the God of the Bible command us to love him?

by sabastious 50 Replies latest jw friends

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    One character is saying this about another character. Two different characters are mentioned. No character says "I command you to love me". This is clear enough.

    So you are debating this from a literary perspective.

    Even from a literary perspective Jesus (the character) is the SON of God, therefore he knows what God requires more than any other entity in the universe. It can be easily stated with the given accounts in the gospels that the greatest of God's commandments is to love him. It is not an invitation since there is a punishment if you don't accept it.

    -Sab

  • Curtains
    Curtains

    I'm simply looking at the lessons Jesus is teaching - thats all.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    I'm simply looking at the lessons Jesus is teaching - thats all.

    Are you aware you are making little sense?

    I'm not trying to be mean, you just aren't describing your position very well.

    -Sab

  • Curtains
    Curtains

    what exactly are you having difficulty with as I am quite happy to explain further

  • streets76
    streets76

    She said love, love, love is everything
    I said ok, I guess, whatever
    She said what does that mean
    I said nothin, it's just good to have a backup plan
    She said I guess that means you don't got love
    I said maybe I love everyone
    She said that's the same as lovin no one
    I said ok, I guess, whatever

    -- Dan Bern, New American Language

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    what exactly are you having difficulty with as I am quite happy to explain further

    I'm not sold that it is my difficulty, not just yet.

    You are minimizing the fact that God is commanding something of us that, by definition, is NOT compulsory. Making deep affection of something or someone a command tries to force it and make it compulsory.

    Love cannot be Law, since love is earned. At least that's how it works in our existence.

    I see one of two options here:

    1. We love God without knowing it because it what we are designed to

    Which defeats the purpose of it being a command. There is no free choice if it is our designation.

    2. We are coerced into having, at the bare minimum, a general affinity with God that could eventually turn into real love.

    Say I kidnap you and bring you into my house. I feed you the best food, I cloth you with the most comfortable garments. I never let you leave my house and demand that you like me, and eventually love me.

    That's what those verses are describing. God created us against our will then demanded that we like and love him. That's not the way things work. You would never end up loving me because you would always be my captive.

    -Sab

  • designs
    designs

    Shebly- comment then on a good person who happens to be of the Jewish Faith, that may counter your broadbrush analogy. You will then find that the same spectrum would have existed at the time of the 'Jesus' character of the Gospels. Good, descent, helpful Jews living the 'Golden Rule' everyday, a rule which was laid out long before the 'Jesus' character appears.

    We should go through the 'friend of Jesus, Lazarus scene', sometime to show how the Gospels leave some blantant holes in its attempts at Judaism.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Shebly- comment then on a good person who happens to be of the Jewish Faith, that may counter your broadbrush analogy. You will then find that the same spectrum would have existed at the time of the 'Jesus' character of the Gospels. Good, descent, helpful Jews living the 'Golden Rule' everyday, a rule which was laid out long before the 'Jesus' character appears.

    I don't doubt that such folk existed then... and I know they exist now, dear designs (again, peace to you!). Two of my co-band members are Jewish guys, who have hearts of gold. One is a Harvard educated attorney in SF; the other a CPA. But I could say the same thing about the WTBTS, though, couldn't I? That there are "decent, helpful" folks "living the Golden Rule everyday" there, too? Again, though, your example was that there were Jews attending readings in my Lord's day in the flesh, which I totally concede, but state, again, that such "activity" doesn't mean one is "good"... any more than going out in field service and regularly attending the WT Study does.

    And keep in mind, some of those Jews who regularly attended those readings ultimately got the sense of what my Lord was teaching; however, not always quickly or easily, or without effort... or repeated reminders.

    We should go through the 'friend of Jesus, Lazarus scene', sometime to show how the Gospels leave some blantant holes in its attempts at Judaism.

    I absolutely don't doubt that the gospels do. They're not inspired... and it's not like the hypocritical scribes ceased their "works" by the time those writings got into the Bible canon... or even for some time after. Indeed, a look at the plethora of modern Bible versions will attest to that, even today.

    I understand your loyalty to Judaism, dear designs, or at least your issues with the Bible's portrayal of it. I take no issue with true Judaism, absolutely none. Indeed, my Lord was a Jew in the flesh... and adhered to every degree to that form of worship. To take issue with it in its true form, then, would be to take issue with him. How can that be? Because of him, I know what is meant when it says "salvation is through the Jews."

    Which is why I direct my threads, when I do, TO the Household of God... Israel... and those who go with. Because even if such a one is a christian, meaning chosen by means of an anointing with holy spirit, that one is also, then, "Israel" and perhaps even a Jew. I am such a one. So, I have no issue with true Judaism. I just know that I don't have to live by it... as the Law that defines and directs Jews was fulfilled FOR me, by One, Christ. So that I am freed from it. Now, by means of a NEW Law, I can fulfill my obligation under the old one simply by loving God... with my whole heart, soul, mind, and strength, loving my neighbor (and therefore my brother, a stranger, even an enemy) as myself... and by kissing the Son who set me free.

    I hope that explains, dear designs. And I would be most happy to go through the Lazarus "scene," if you desire, but it's truly not necessary as I agree there are "holes."

    Again, I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Curtains
    Curtains
    I asked: what exactly are you having difficulty with as I am quite happy to explain further

    You replied

    I'm not sold that it is my difficulty, not just yet.

    You are minimizing the fact that God is commanding something of us that, by definition, is NOT compulsory. Making deep affection of something or someone a command tries to force it and make it compulsory.

    Love cannot be Law, since love is earned. At least that's how it works in our existence.

    I see one of two options here:

    1. We love God without knowing it because it what we are designed to

    Which defeats the purpose of it being a command. There is no free choice if it is our designation.

    2. We are coerced into having, at the bare minimum, a general affinity with God that could eventually turn into real love.

    Say I kidnap you and bring you into my house. I feed you the best food, I cloth you with the most comfortable garments. I never let you leave my house and demand that you like me, and eventually love me.

    That's what those verses are describing. God created us against our will then demanded that we like and love him. That's not the way things work. You would never end up loving me because you would always be my captive.

    -Sab

    My reply

    powerful illustrations to back up your points. And I agree that this is one way of understanding those verses. In this we see God in (1) above as coercer and in (2) as captor

    the point I am making is that there is another way of understanding those verses which is to see them as assisting life. They would assit life, rather than capture it by providing fruit for contemplation, for inspiration, for creative endeavours to maximise and extend life rather than capture it. God in his scenario is the other, he is the beloved and the reader is necessitated/obligated to be the lover. At a point when life seems stuck a scripture like this can free it. A meaningful goal is presented. you get my drift.

    Another point is that love is held up as the greatest virtue, one that enables connections with the unknown and unknowable and with one's neighbour. But in both cases love of neighbour and love of God are involved in life rather than being above life. If God is above life and directing from somewhere outside of life then your 2 points above definitely apply - god as captor and god as coercer.

    edit: the view I have outlined above is compatible with atheism, with agonosticism and with being a believer. THe most important aspect is that it enables one to step into (and out of) all three positions and have epiphanies whilst enjoying empathy.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Love cannot be Law, since love is earned. At least that's how it works in our existence.

    I am not sure how you mean this, dear Sab (peace to you!), but if I take it at face value I would have to VEHEMENTLY disagree and say that THIS is the "problem" of mankind, and "we" have it backward. Love IS law because it is the DEBT we owe one another. We OWE it... to God... ourselves... our brother... our neighbor... strangers... even our enemies. Every good one man does to another "fulfills" this "law." Every trespass one man commits against another "violates" this "law."

    Unfortunately, like "respect" we have this [very] false "human" position... and thus, expectation... that it must be earned. And so, everyone goes around waiting for others to love and respect them... rather than loving and respecting them first. But, no, dear one - that is the "way of the world." What we are SUPPOSED to do is love... and respect... one another FIRST. In whatever "relationship" we have. Why? Because God... loves us... FISRT. "In our existence," however, we demand that others love and respect US first. And that is why we see what we do in the world: lack of love... and lack of respect. Because everyone is concerned about what is owed THEM... versus what they owe to others.

    I get it that this is the way the world works, but it isn't the way things are supposed to work... and those who are called to be members of the Body of Christ... and those in the world who do good to them... know this. They don't live by the world's "code," but by the unspoken code of love. They are borne out in things like Christ sacrificing himself for those who belong to him (his friends)... AND for the world (his enemies)... as well as the account of the Good Samaritan, who took care of an "enemy" whose own brothers wouldn't help him. The GS did the "right" thing... because of the love that was in HIM.

    The truth is that while we don't have to LIKE one another, regardless of our relationships, we certainly have to LOVE one another... if we are truly to be "righteous." We don't even always have to like God - He certainly doesn't always like us. But if we succumb to how things are "in our existence"... then we will reap the result of that existence: death. Eternally. I realize, however, that that is not truly a concern for most in our "existence"... which goes contrary to what most of them say.

    Again, I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit