Why Can't We All Just Get Along?

by AK - Jeff 39 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  PSacramento

  I have a friend and he is an atheist ( I have a few that are) and he is one of the most understanding and intelligent men I know.

  He once said something to me about why he used to be an "angry atheist" and he is no longer:

  I realised that I was angry at myself for believing in something that I shouldn't have, I used to be angry at religion and the church for deceiving me, but I realised that they didn't deceive me, they voiced their views based on what they believed and I BELIEVED them, it was not forced down my throat, not anymore than anything else in my life and at ANY point I could have questioned it, which I eventually did.

  I was angry at myself but I blamed religion for deceiving me.

  As soon as I understood that I was to blame, I grew up, and became the awesome guy you know and worship ( yes, he is quite the joker).

  Personally I don't think "blame" is the wright word, but it was his word.

  He says that the "hypothsis" of God is one that he keeps open, simply because it is silly for someone that doesn't know everything to write something off, but he doesn't believe that God is the God of religion as he knows it.
• 

  tec

  Gladiator (man o' peace) - Many people do like a good debate or at least an in depth and challenging conversation. It lets us see the view from the other side, and gets the adrenaline pumping from the challenge, flexes our brain muscles. Where a debate is not welcome, imo, is when it regresses into insult and attack and disrespect.

  Tammy
• 

  tec

  Jeff - I can understand what you're saying about anger being a transitionary period, and about the long adjustment from believer to atheist. But in regards to thinking that believers are ignorant, or too afraid to face reality, or fooling themselves, etc... well, those are generalizations. They may be true of some, but certainly not all. On either side. I just think its easier to face the generalization, than it is to understand that there are many believers who don't fit that 'mold'.

  When I came here, I thought that all atheists were angry and insulting. That was from my personal and close experiences. Posters like LeavingWT showed me that this did not have to be the case. So I did not hold onto what I had previously thought, but adjusted my views accordingly. When comments like 'believers' do this and think that are presented from you or anyone, even after you have been presented with believers who don't do or think those things, I have to assume that you and others are holding onto your general concept of all believers, regardless of the evidence before you. I don't know why that is, except that perhaps its easier?

  Tammy
• 

  tec

  PSac - Your friend sounds as if he has let go of all possible anger regarding belief and/or believers, and that has given him peace (and the necessary demand for worship .)

  Tammy
• 

  PSacramento

  Tammy,

  Outside of the occasional demand for worship, yes, he has found peace, far more than religion ever gave him it seems.
• 

  AGuest

  May you all have peace! Elsewhere someone asked "Why Do You Come Here?" I have tried to make my reason known from the start. I just want to say that it is the comments on threads (from both sides, civility withstanding) like this that make me happier about it, from time to time.

  Dear PSacto (the greatest of love and peace go you!), would that all of us could be as honest about what we currently believe... and may be going through as a result of what we formerly believed... as your dear friend. So many of us try to fit ourselves in the "box" of beliefs of others. Those who believe "similarly." Which is what gets a lot of us in "trouble."

  Again, peace to you all!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  Chalam

  Chalam - please clarify your posting of Galatians 5:19-21. Are you suggesting that this applies to atheists or to Christians? Or did you just feel a need to post a scripture?

  This applies to all those who do not believe and indeed, those who are born again but walk in the flesh, not the Spirit.

  I post scripture as I feel applicable. I live my life by it and recall it as the Spirit brings it to mind. To me this describes that we clearly cannot all just get along.

  As far as Romans 8:7, which you clearly apply to atheists in your comment below - you are dead wrong.

  Atheists are not hostile toward God - we do not believe in God, hence there is nothing to be hostile toward in our opinion. While a true atheist might be angry toward the god-concept and the amount of damage it does to human society - he certainly feels no emotion or opinion of hostility toward God - he knows there is no god [or at least accepts rationally that there is no evidence to support the concept], and as a result may be angry toward society that stole years of his productive life by influencing him to believe. But toward God, no anger. It would be like hating Santa or the Tooth Fairy or Jesus - all stories with fictional characters is all.

  Jeff

  With respect I disagree, just look at any of the atheist/theist debates on this very board. Atheists and non-believers are hostile to God and those who believe in Him.

  There is a part of me which is hostile to God. I know because it pops its head up every now and then. I walked in that hostility for 20 years. Now I choose to walk in the Spirit more and more because it brings the fruit is good :) When I walk in the flesh plenty of bad fruit that arrives before too long, heaviness, depression, anger etc. Even though sin has its fleeting pleasure I am learning that the "benefit" is not worth the cost and I much prefer the vibe when I am walking in holiness. That is not self righteousness but the righteousness that comes from Christ.

  Only a fool can say "there is no God". Even Dawkins plays the percentage game and calls himself an agnostic. Until one knows everything and been everywhere in this universe, no-one can proclaim there is no God.

  Many tar my Heavenly Father with the same brush as the tyrannous "jehovah" of the WT but really they are as different as day is to night.

  Blessings in Christ,

  Stephen
• 

  jgnat

  It just occurred to me that my dad, an agnostic and generally allergic to organized religion, recently married a sweet Christian lady with an evangelical background. In her later years, she has developed an allergy, too, to extremism. She prays. She embraces her extended family. They are a good match.

  In one of the life-changing books I finished this year, "The battle for God, A History of Fundamentalism", Karen Armstrong makes a good argument that any religious thinker (Jewish, Islam, or Christian) that takes a complex idea, oversimplifies it, then sets their stake in the ground for "truth", is bound to make "enemies".

  I've met dogmatic athiests, too, who assume a certain level of ignorance from the other "camp".

  To get along, athiest and Christian, requires that old habits, assumptions, "stands" be put aside. Shed fear. Don't presume to "know the enemy" if you haven't listened, deeply.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Where the hell you been, Jgnat? Haven't seen you here for quite a while - course that might be my own hit and miss style with this board nowadays - I only show once in a while myself.

  Happy Holidays to you.

  Jeff
• 

  jgnat

  Yup, I've graduated to hit-and-miss posting. The word distracted me for a while. See? Old friends do get along - when we cross paths.