'Tis the Season: Christmas and "Pagan Origins"

by cabasilas 40 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Butterflyleia85

  Wow Leolaia How do you know all that stuff?! lol Isn't Enoch part of the bible though according to Wikipedia:

  The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch [ 1 ] ) is an ancient Jewish religious work, traditionally ascribed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah. It is not part of the biblical canon as used by Jews, apart from Beta Israel. It is regarded as canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and Eritrean Orthodox Church, but no other Christian group.

  Interesting though did you find the connection of it's originality!
• 

  Leolaia

  Thanks for bumping the thread! I thought no one noticed all that stuff I posted.

  Yeah, 1 Enoch was canonical for the ancient Essenes (an offshoot of earlier Enochic Judaism), and it had status as inspired scripture for many early Christians (with Jewish Christianity originating as a movement within Essenism, according to some scholars), including the authors of Jude and Barnabas, the Christian redactor of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, Tertullian (who even cited 2 Timothy 3:16 in support of its scriptural authority), and to some extent Origen (who began to have doubts as to its authenticity). The Ethiopian Orthodox Church draws strongly on the heritage of Essenism, preserving other Essene scriptures like Jubilees (written in the middle second century BC). Pharisaism was a separate branch of early Judaism which did not recognize Essene works as scripture. And after the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 and the council of Jamnia, the Pharisees became the predominant group who defined the character of post-Second Temple Judaism (rabbinical Judaism), and so it was their canon of the Tanakh that became authoritative. And the authority of the rabbinical canon, in turn, became the authoritative Christian OT canon by the time of Jerome. The rise of the post-Pharisee canon in the Christian church raised suspicions about books like 1 Enoch and Jubilees. The rabbinical canon however was not uniformily adopted throughout the different Christian churches; the Ethiopian Orthodox church in the far south preserved to some extent the older more open canon of early Christianity (of course, it also adds some later books, including an edited version of Josephus).
• 

  Dagney

  @Leo: Thank you for that list. I'm going to use it as needed. (Thinking...yeah, I have holiday bells on my car mirror and will see JW's this weekend. "You want pagan origins...I'll give you pagan origins!!!)
• 

  designs

  I bought a new Zoroastrian hat that looks a lot like my regular Party Hat...

  Got my first invitation to a Christmas Eve Bash, RSVP'd, totally fun!
• 

  PSacramento

  An amazing list Leo.

  I have often said that it is virtually impossible to NOT have pagan infulence/history/origin in ANY religion ( Pagan to THAt religion) simply because of how interwoven cultures always have been.

  It makes sense that the writers would use imagery that their audience would understand, even if it was borrowed from pagan mythology, simply because there is nothing more curcial than a common "point of reference" when writing.

  It does amaze me the 1Enoch is NOt part of the biblical canon, espcially since Revelation "borrows/has in common with" so much from it and even Titus mentions it.
• 

  Terry

  A person I know and admire for their clear thinking sat me down one day and explained something to me.

  "Things aren't what they once were. Things are what they are."

  If your great grandfather was a bootlegger or a bank robber those were his failings and not yours. You are who you are.

  Everything that is comes from something that once was.

  How can we hold what "IS" guilty for its own origins?

  We didn't choose our parents. Did we?

  This applies to Christmas. Honestly.

  The intentions of people cannot be subjected to the harshest possible historical scrutiny unless we wish to make ourselves monsters of judgement.

  We want our children to experience wonder, happiness, anticipation and familial felicity and there are few ways that accomplish that miracle better

  than Christmas.

  Society goes out of its way to make everyday chaos into a twinkling, colorful, melodic beautiful dream world. At Christmas, that is.

  We can be as cynical and historic as we desire, but, THAT attitude does not make the world a better place.

  Really.
• 

  PSacramento

  Well said Terry :)
• 

  LongHairGal

  Cabasilas:

  After all the abuses I have seen in christianity, I feel more open towards paganism. I like Christmas and don't care about such nonsense.
• 

  PSacramento

  Ah, if one was inclined to judge ANY religion or ideology base don the abuses...well...I don't think we'd feel inclined to be vary pro-human at all.

  While we must never forget or deny or neglect the faults and issues that MUST be corrected, we must also recognise the good when itis there.
• 

  LongHairGal

  PSacramento:

  Yes, I suppose religion does some good in society. It keeps people in line and teaches values and morals. But as far as the JW's harping on pagan origins of Christmas and other holidays, I am not interested in anything they say.

  They simply hate holidays because they do not want you associating with "worldly" family or friends. They are afraid that if you see unconditional love from relatives you may not want to go back to their judgmental religion. This was one of my early rude awakenings.