On the day you eat...

by PSacramento 39 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Since it has been brought up a few time, I though it cool to post this interpretation of this part of Genesis 2:

    http://biologos.org/blog/genesis-creation-and-ancient-interpreters-on-the-day-you-eat-of-it/

    One issue that occupied the attention of many early interpreters is found in Genesis 2:16-17, where God warns not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, “for on the day you eat of it you shall die.”

    The problem is well known: Adam (and Eve) did eat of the fruit, but they did not die on that day. In fact, Adam continues to live until the age of 930 (Genesis 5:5), and Eve, we can presume, had a long life as well.

    One way of resolving this problem was to do what many Christians and Jews have done throughout history: look elsewhere in the Bible for a resolution. The principle behind this approach is that God is the author of the Bible, and so it is “mutually interpretive.” A common way of putting it among Christians, at least Protestants, is “scripture interprets scripture.”

    Based on that principle, Psalm 90:4 was brought into the discussion: “a thousand years in your sight are like yesterday when it is past, or like a watch in the night.” A glance at Psalm 90 will show it is not concerned with the Adam story. The psalm is making the point that God is from everlasting to everlasting (v. 2), although people come and go quickly, in what is like a moment for God—like a single day, like a watch in the night (vv. 3-6).

    Even though Psalm 90 does not address the question of Genesis 2:16-17, the connection between the two is not as random as one might think. Psalm 90:3-6 refers to death—specifically, the “sons of men” (literally, “sons of Adam”) returning to dust, or like grass they are here today and gone tomorrow (vv. 5-6). Also, as we read in the rest of the psalm, God is clearly angry with the Israelites for their “iniquities” and “secret sins” (v. 8).

    You have in these three verses the use of the word “adam,” a reference to some trespass, and death described as a return to dust—and all this happening from God’s perspective in a span of time from morning to evening. Whether or not the psalmist intended to reflect the Adam story (Genesis 2:7), it is easy to understand how his choice of words would encourage interpreters to see Psalm 90 as commenting somehow on the Garden story, where you also have an “adam” retuning to dust in the face of God’s anger for his iniquities.

    Given this overlap there is only one more element of Psalm 90 to apply to Genesis to make the connection complete. Maybe the divine day in Psalm 90:4 also applies to the Garden story: Adam’s life span, from God’s perspective, is also a mere day in length.

    Before we got too excited thinking that Psalm 90 actually solves the dilemma of Genesis 2:16-17, we should note how the rest of the psalm plays out. In v. 10 the psalmist leaves the poetic description of death in vv. 3-6 and plainly says that the human life span is very brief, a mere 70-80 years, a mere moment compared to God. It seems clear that the point of the psalm is simply this: “Lord, you are everlasting and our time on earth is but a moment, relatively speaking. So relent of your anger and rather teach us to be mindful of how brief our stay here is.” (vv. 11-12)

    Psalm 90 does not answer the question of the “day” of Adam’s death in Genesis 2, but you can see why—guided by the principle that all of Scripture is “connected” somehow—one might bring these two together.

    In the New Testament, Peter picks up on this in 2 Peter 3:8 where he says, “with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day.” Peter is not talking about Adam’s death, but applies the language of Psalm 90 to another issue entirely. His readers were apparently concerned about the delay in the Lord’s return. Peter was simply telling them that “delay” is a relative term, and so “the Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness” (v. 9).

    Other early interpreters, however, honed in on Psalm 90 to reconcile God’s warning in Genesis 2:16-17 with the fact that Adam died at the ripe old age of 930. After all, if a day in God’s mind is like 1000 years, and Adam died at 930 years of age, Adam died in a divine day—with 70 years to spare. And so we read in Jubilees 4:29-30 (written in the middle of the 2nd century B.C.):

    Adam died, and all his sons buried him in the land of his creation, and he was the first to be buried on earth. And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens [i.e., Psalm 90], and therefore it is written concerning the tree of knowledge: “On the day you eat of it you shall die.”

    Another way of looking at the problem of Genesis 2:16-17 is simply to say that on the day Adam ate of the fruit, he was barred from eating of the other tree, the tree of life (Genesis 2:22-24). Adam had only been barred from the tree of knowledge, and so we can presume he had free access to the tree of life. But once barred from the tree of life, mortality was introduced. Hence, “on the day you eat of it you shall die” would mean that immortality was removed, and Adam and Eve then entered a state of mortality.

    There are other solutions that have been proposed in the history of interpretation. But, once again, the more basic point should not be lost. In the pivotal opening chapters of the Bible, we have an ambiguity that readers worked to resolve.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Did you ever stop to think that maybe they DID die on the very day they eat? What did death mean to someone who had never seen it?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Personally, my view is that: on that day, Adam and Eve gave up their "immortality" with God and as such, they did indeed "die" that day.

    Did the drop over dead and die? no.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog
    Did the drop over dead and die? no.

    So just how dead were they then?

    Were they DEAD in their sins, or just sick?

  • tec
    tec

    Dead in their sins.

    Spiritual death on that day because of their sin.

    That's what I think.

    Tammy

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Tammy

    Dead in their sins.
    Spiritual death on that day because of their sin.

    That raises the age old question, if you are "DEAD" spiritualy, how can you respond to God?

  • Lore
    Lore

    So did Yahweh TELL Adam that when he says: "Day" He could mean any random number incuding: 24 hours, a week, a year, 1000 year, a 'period of time' possibly billions of years.

    If he told Adam that, then how come he didn't just say: "For in the Millenium that you eat from it" Or: "If you eat it, you'll eventually die." ?

    Maybe if the 1000 years = 1 day rule had been mentioned in the Genesis story it wouldn't seem like such a pathetic excuse.

    But whether it's Paul changing definitions 4000 years later, or you personally doing it 6000 years later. It's still just some random guy trying to make excuses for the obvious problems in the bible.

    Am I allowed to retroactively redefine words to make myself truthful?

    Me: "I'll give you 100 dollars in under 20 minutes."
    34 years later
    Me: "Well when I said '20 minutes' I actually meant '20 years'. And when I said 'dollars' I actually meant 'germs'. And when I said '100' I actually meant 'influenza'.
    Remember 14 years ago when I gave you the flu? Yeah that was me fulfilling my promise!"

    And yet, somehow you find that to be an acceptible way to 'resolve' the problem when god does it. . .

    Lore

  • tec
    tec

    That raises the age old question, if you are "DEAD" spiritualy, how can you respond to God?

    By gaining life through and having faith in His Son.

    Tammy

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    So just how dead were they then?
    Were they DEAD in their sins, or just sick?

    Are you suggesting they DID drop over dead ?

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Keep in mind that you posted on the forum, so you opened yourself up to posts that disagree. Don't go all Brother Dan on me.

    Discussing "what God really meant" allows people to believe that it really happened quite literally.

    One of the biggest problems for "religion" and belief systems based on the Bible is the Bible itself. People are stuck with the inconsistencies of the writings. God is love unless God is on the war path. God never lies so he must change his mind or something. People pay for their own errors unless they are the king or God just feels like making their children and heirs pay for their errors.

    Another way to resolve this (totally serious) is to think that the original writer of this legend was saying that the snake wasn't lying and Adam and Eve became "like God" and did not die in the day of their eating the fruit.

    The story might very well be saying that you better watch your back because this God fellow hates disobedience. He messed these first two people up by kicking them out of the garden and passing on birth pains to women. But that was the price we had to pay to get the knowledge of good and bad and to stop letting some tyrant force us to our knees in worship. So now, each person can decide to keep kissing God's ring finger, trying to make up for this disobedience or we can blaze our own trials without God. Either way, we end up dead.

    But that's just one more theory.

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