'great crowd' are in the temple (naos) but not in the new covenant??? (page 2)

konceptual99

Gotta agree with fukitol on the swallowing the spin.

Most of the R&F have NO problem accepting the WTS view of the new covenant. It's not even that illogical as at least they can spin scriptures rather than pure rhetoric as with the overlapping generations.

As for increasing numbers of partakers... no one seems that bothered. Many have forgotten or were never exposed to the buzz around looking at the decreasing numbers 20+ years ago and simply say we can't say who is and who isn't.

I have tried over and over again to get through to my wife on these points and as open and liberal as she seems to be, all of this simply is water off a ducks back.

DATA-DOG

I have to disagree, but only because of the subject matter. If the history of organized Xianity has taught us anything, it's the power of Jesus. Seriously...think about that.

If we took an unofficial poll of ex-Jw's, I'm willing to bet that I high percentage felt a connection to Jesus and that this was a catalyst in their leaving the WTBTS.

This particular subject is serious for the WTBTS because they CANNOT afford to have the R&F dubs having "Jesus feelings." It's more dangerous than anything else, even pedophilia cases being exposed. Those things can be played off as mistakes by imperfect men. Hell, the current GB could even DF Gerrit Loesch and say he was an apostate! They can spin that.

Once you get the Jesus bug, it's too late. That is why they WTBTS will do everything they can to carefully craft their own brand of Jesus. This means keeping the R&F in the dark as regards the biblical Jesus. Jesus must be an errand boy for Jeehoobie!

Where was Jesus when the GB printed that wonderful illustration depicting the JW hierarchy!?!? NOWHERE. How many dramas or videos has the "One TRUE religion"( lead by Jesus' own brothers ) produced in the last 100+ years?? ZERO.

A relationship with Jesus is quite frankly the most dangerous thing for any cult or high-control group, PERIOD. If you don't believe that, then you don't understand the history of XIANITY.

The very fact that the most successful and lasting XIAN religions or cults use a perversion of, or brand of "Jesus" is proof of the power behind the name.

The WTBTS won't change this teaching. It would eventually destroy the hierarchy. If you believe in Jesus, REALLY BELIEVE, then you do not need the WTBTS or their human prognosticators. The "middle man" is the first to go. The GB know it, and it scares the shit out off them. They become useless when you are no longer a captive of the "Channel of God" concept.

DD

DATA-DOG

Also, for anyone who believes the rank and file never notice, I have a story for you.

The drama about Job and his wife a couple years ago cause a huge situation in my area. The dubs were freaking out en masse because Job and his wife were holding hands in paradise.

The wild fire spread so quickly that the higher-ups had to get involved and a letter was sent to all elders in charge of drama preparation. The elders in charge of dramas we're told that absolutely under no circumstances, were Job and his wife to be depicted as holding hands in future productions.

So the rank and file do notice, they aren't stupid, they are just ignorant. They are kept in that state deliberately and we all know it.

So if Job holding hands with his wife caused a situation that eventually required an official letter, what do you think a Jesus issue would do?? Can you even imagine what would happen if average Jay dubs realized that scripturally they are on par with the governing body?

The governing body can imagine it, and it scares the shit out of them.

DD

prologos

or, if the R&F found out they all have the elevated status of being {Spiritual] Israelites. anointed even, perhaps not "sealed" though,-- like Jesus said: "Behold, an Israelite--"

menrov

I agree with the analysis of Data Dog. Being a true believer in Jesus sets one really free. You realize you do not need any organisation to be saved. Hence, you do not need the JW club....and their resources will dry up, their power and adoration gone..... just imagine.

I therefore believe it does make sense to continue to support and help believers to acquire some understanding of the truth in the bible and in particular what Jesus means to all believers.

A site like this helps but also a few others.

fukitol

LOL.

OMG OMG if the rank and file are permitted to start taking the emblems they'll get "Jesus feelings" and the "Jesus bug" and it'll be fatal to the shit-scared GB. You really do talk a lot of shite sometimes DD.

DATA-DOG

I didn't say that I agree with the GB, or believe in the "Jesus feeling." I'm simply saying that the GB do not want JWs to feel a real, personal connection with Jesus.

The GB are the mediator for JWs, not Jesus. They are the boss of you, not Jesus. They have a position because they have created a vacuum and filled it. It's religious control 101.

You can say that I talk shit, that's your right. I think a careful observation shows otherwise.

If a R&F wants to test out my theory, they can start talking about their personal relationship with Jesus at the meetings. They can tell their close friends that Jesus is their mediator according to the bible. They can publicly declare ( like Gerrit Loesch ) that they are not, and have never been under the authority of the WTBTS. They can say that when they read the scriptures, Jesus sends the Holy Spirit to guide them into the truth in their personal studies, also mentioning that they study Hebrew and Greek.

Just watch what happens. The moment you believe in Jesus as depicted by the bible, without WT goggles, you are no longer in need of the GB's spiritual feeding program. It then becomes a simple matter of knowing the hierarchy and following the $$$.

Thats my opinion. Take it or leave it, but it's based on the history of religion and observation.

DD

TheListener

I know from experience that dubs talk about Jesus but not about actually having a relationship with him. They talk s lot about his earthly life and his coming in the near future but not Jesus in the present as the head of Christianity.

When I was a dub and heard songs about Jesus or praise Jesus this or that I chalked it up to the trinity and falsehood.

I think that when dubs hear Christians talk about having a relationship with Jesus they automatically put that person in the born again category. And most experienced dubs will tell you that it is near impossible to convert a born again.

Imho

Crazyguy

This religion had always been about exalting the leadership.

fukitol

Just watch what happens. The moment you believe in Jesus as depicted by the bible, without WT goggles, you are no longer in need of the GB's spiritual feeding program. It then becomes a simple matter of knowing the hierarchy and following the $$$.

Complete tosh.

Thousands of JW's have been taking the emblems since the Watchtower started and no 'Jesus feeling' ever stopped them from idolizing or staying loyal to the Watchtower Society.

Does partaking of the Eucharist stop a billion Catholics from venerating the Pope?

All Christians except the dubs take the emblems in some form or other, doesn't stop them idealizing and loyally obeying their religious leaders.

Partaking of the emblems would have ZERO effect on loyalty to the organisation.

'great crowd' are in the temple (naos) but not in the new covenant???

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