Ground Zero Mosque

by minimus 105 Replies latest jw friends

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    I look forward to the day, although I will surely not see it in my lifetime, when the secular movement gathers momentum and the emancipated human species looks upon mosques, churches, synagogues, cathedrals and Kingdom Halls as the anachronisms they are, keeps a few around to remind us how foolish and primitive we once were and dismantles the rest. Ground zero is, if nothing else, testimony to the fruits of religion.

    Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things, but for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.”

    Steven Weinburg, Nobel Prize winner for Theoretical Physics.

  • tec
    tec

    Wanted to say, Good Post, Ninja.

    Tammy

  • Mary
    Mary
    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things, but for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."

    Amen.

  • tec
    tec

    Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things, but for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.”

    Religion... or politics, or power, or fear, or money, etc.

    (I think power and fear actually cover all the topics)

    Tammy

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Which we do every day on here when we talk about the WTS and you don't bat an eyelash. We all know that not every single Witness is a bad or evil person, yet we generalize all the time when we talk about how screwed up the religion is. Have you ever protested that? Not that I recall

    :) Because that is a hopeless cause since this is an anti-JW DB. In like manner, I don't visit anti-Muslim boards and complain about them generalizing thier hatred of Muslims.

    However, I have personally (face-to-face) at dinner expressed just such sentiments to another poster and his wife on this DB, and good luck finding a death-to-JWs post from me.

    I do not rail against JWs. I will rail against a specific belief. And...uh oh...here it comes...I think JWs have some value in the world. A classic example is the young man I met this summer in Sacramento, CA. He studied with JWs while in prison for gang violence. His world from birth was so screwed up, that he had no moral compass. He needs the strict, uber-authoritarian world of JWs, or Mormons, or some other such religion, to give him a life plan. Could the blood issue cost him his young life? Yes. But he was on the road to certain death, and he would not have ANY hope of life, but for finding JWs or some other "cult."

    My husband owes his life to JWs. He was deep into drug violence and was hiding in the Nevada desert to escape assassination when he decided to call the JW woman who had originally contacted him.

    I'm not really sure what your argument is anymore. You vascillate from the whole (Islam is a cult and every member is indoctrinated) to the part (my Muslim dentist is cool and has the right idea).

    Usually when arguments break down logically like that, it is because too much emotion is involved. I sense your passion and cry for justice, but your arguments are sloppy and in need of a re-write. That's why others too have asked you to post a bit more carefully.

    Well, my mouth dropped open too when I heard her speak, although for a different reason. I was stunned beyond words that anyone who had lost a family member that day could possibly be supporting the very religion that had been responsible for my daughter's death. Something tells me that that woman is in the minority

    She may be in the minority. That is irrelevant. Your post was about Amanpour's panel and you commented on how the parents who lost children must feel. Yet, you neglected to speak about the parent who was on the panel and did express her feelings. ??? Was it beyond you to to present an argument counter to your own? Was it beyond you say...while I don't understand her feelings and strongly disagree with them, there was one mother who made a defense of Islam.....?

    I think we might actually be of the same mind, because I generally agree with your solutions. I don't approve of honor killings and think Muslims should integrate, and my Muslim friends believe the same.

    I just can't deal with your emotions; however, being an INTJ, I do generally get along much better with men than women.

  • WontLeave
    WontLeave

    Wow... There are some very wacky opinions on this subject. Most seem to be based on complete ignorance (granted, most here were raised JWs, so that's to be expected). If you've never read the Qu'ran, please don't tout your opinion of it. If your source of information about 9/11 is Loose Change or Zeitgeist, please don't ever speak at all.

    I've read the Qu'ran and have had business dealings with Muslims. The Qu'ran is vile and evil, pitting Islam against the entire rest of the world, especially Christians and Jews. According to the Qu'ran, if you don't hate "infidels", you're no Muslim. If you can't convert someone (even by force), it's your duty as a Muslim to kill them. Yet, they're allowed to take our money; and they do. It's called "bleeding the beast" and they practice it. They'll gladly sell you anything you'll buy from them, but never will you sell anything to them, unless you're also a Muslim. Don't accept checks from or extend credit to Muslim companies, as they'll be restructured with the same people, under a new name and you'll never get your money; at least this is my experience.

    Stealing from an infidel isn't stealing. Raping an infidel isn't rape. Murdering an infidel isn't murder. The Qu'ran only condemns these acts against Muslims. Read it or shut up about it. I'm sick of ignoramuses defending these evil people. I wish all the facially-pierced, purple-haired, free-love, hippie lesbians who fight so adamantly for these sick religious nuts would just go to a country they run. After their clits are cut off, they're raped in the street, sold into slavery, and stoned to death, they won't be so quick to defend these animals.

  • Mary
    Mary
    However, I have personally (face-to-face) at dinner expressed just such sentiments to another poster and his wife on this DB, and good luck finding a death-to-JWs post from me.

    I never said you did and I certainly have never expressed the idea that I wish to see 1.5 billion people wiped off the face of the earth. If I did, how would that make me any different than Adolf Hitler? Your statement that I 'lump all Muslims into the same category' is what prompted my comment that we do it all the time on here--it's as simple as that.

    I do not rail against JWs. I will rail against a specific belief. And...uh oh...here it comes...I think JWs have some value in the world. A classic example is the young man I met this summer in Sacramento, CA. He studied with JWs while in prison for gang violence. His world from birth was so screwed up, that he had no moral compass. He needs the strict, uber-authoritarian world of JWs, or Mormons, or some other such religion, to give him a life plan. Could the blood issue cost him his young life? Yes. But he was on the road to certain death, and he would not have ANY hope of life, but for finding JWs or some other "cult." My husband owes his life to JWs. He was deep into drug violence and was hiding in the Nevada desert to escape assassination when he decided to call the JW woman who had originally contacted him.

    I agree 100%. At the moment, I have a loathing for the WTS unlike I've ever had before since it was confirmed to us by a panel of doctors and 3 lawyers (a few months ago) that the refusal to take blood transfusions led to my brother in law's demise and ultimate death. I now watch my sister live in horror every day as the shock wears off and the reality sets in that he's not coming home. She's on various medications now for her heart, high blood pressure (even though she dropped 40 pounds after he died), and high cholesterol----all of which were caused by her losing the love of her life since she had never taken anything before he got sick. I hate the religion for what it's done to her and to our family. Yet I also know of many people who were either drug addicts or serial alcoholics who started studying with the Witnesses and it saved their lives.

    Still, all things considered, I would not hesitate to lable the Organization as a cult. The fact that it has saved some peoples lives cannot begin to count for the millions of lives they've ruined. And this is how I view Islam. Yes, there are good people in it just as there are in the WTS and they're victims of the doctrines they've been taught since birth. This is where you and I disagree. I see it as probably the most dangerous religion on the face of the planet with millions of fanatics who hate anything and everything that isn't Islamic. You see it as a misunderstood religion that has alot to offer. We are never going to convince each other to see it any other way, so maybe we should just agree to disagree.

  • minimus
    minimus

    Mary, I love you.

  • minimus
    minimus

    Mary's HOT!!!!

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Hmmm. I'm finding your, um, poetry all over the place, ninja. Was it a red or a blue, or both, you have taken?

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