John Walker (page 5)

nowaytess

Did you see the whole interview? I did.

Johnnie grew up in an Ulta-Liberal parents and Ultra-liberal California. since I was raised in Massachuttes (The place where liberalism started) I am very well aware of consequences of liberal thinking and politics. That is why I moved to a more Conservative State (Florida)

Bottom line his parents did not care for him. Their words deny thier actions. Let Jonnie find himself by giving him money and living in Yemen. He left when he was 18. Now what in the world did Johnnie do for money. Being 18, and a foreiner in an Arab based Mulsim culture, I don't think he qualifed for any Job except to sweep the streets. So his parrents were saupporting him or gave hijm access to a sweep acccount in his name.

Sad thing is Jonnie claimed to be more rightous than the native Arab Muslims living there.

Personally, I feel his punishment should be to have him stripped of his US citizenship forever. Now his dad is saying now Jonnie loves America. Johnnie has a strange way of showing it.

I wonder how the wife and three children of the dead CIA agnet feel about Johnnie who took part in killing the CIA agent in the prison uprising.

If Johnnie goes free, the consequneces will be worse for our already overburden judicial system.
"When justice is done, it bring joy to the rightous, but terror to the evil doer"-Prov 21:15

"It is not good to be partical to the wicked or deprive the innocent of Justice."-Proverbs 18:5

LoneWolf

I'm with Ashitaka and SusanHere.

I've had a total belly-full of the inane yammerings of the runny-nosed liberals.

Give him a fair trial, yes.

If he's guilty, give him a good enema, then shoot the parents.

LoneWolf

fodeja

I wonder how the wife and three children of the dead CIA agnet feel about Johnnie who took part in killing the CIA agent in the prison uprising.

So that has been elevated to the level of "fact" by now?

To me, what's most disturbing about this entire Afghanistan thing is that there is virtually NO comprehensive, reliable information available to the public. It basically looks and sounds like it's all coming from one single source. Even respectable newspapers are essentially rehashing the same soundbites anyone can get on TV. Anything else is quickly, and effectively discredited because "those others have an agenda to push" (and they're terrorist supporters for sure!). Oh, yeah, like the US government doesn't have an agenda to push, and the US media doesn't care if advertisers think their reporting is "unpatriotic".

I don't really care much about this JWL case, but I see it as one prime example of successful manipulation: here we have an American public that has, so far, been spoon-fed with carefully screened information in tiny doses - and that's enough to have intelligent people scream for the death of someone.

What do you KNOW about this guy? What do you KNOW about anything that happened in Afghanistan in the past months, for that matter?

That's not to do with conspiracy theory, and please don't give me the brainless "liberal" labeling (which is just as intelligent as the "apostate" label). It's common sense to understand that unless you have other ways and means to check facts, your "reality" is formed by whoever chooses to tell you what "reality" is.

In JWL's case, there's at least a chance of getting to know the whole story - that's what a public trial is about. The POWs, oh, "battlefield detainees" on Cuba? Don't know. Someone said they're terrorists, and that "someone" isn't a disinterested observer. For me, that wouldn't be enough to issue a goddamn parking ticket. For others, it's apparently enough for a public beheading.

f.

Seeker

Some exJWs fail to learn their lessons from exiting the WT and latch on to the same black-and-white thinking they had as a JW. Instead of "worldly" condemnation, they resort to "liberal" condemnation. The fact is, liberals and conservatives are two sides to the same coin in America. In Europe, both groups would be labelled conservative.

Were Walker's parents neglectful? I have no idea. Letting him go to Yemen is hardly evidence of that. Teenagers go all around the world. What's so different about that? Oh sorry, I forgot, Yemen is one of those icky countries....

Still, I guess that's a valid point. If it turns out that Walker's parents were horrible commie pinko-- er liberals, then better to just shoot him in the head. I believe being liberal as well as having neglectful parents carries a death penalty in this country.

Interesting that no one refuted my possible scenario. Better to simply use black-and-white thinking and assume guilt cuz the media said so.

ashitaka

How much sympathy would you have for a punk kid in a street gang, and although he didn't kill anyone like the others in his gang did, still hung out with them? Hung out with the leader. Hung out with the elite of the gang? With knowledge of what went on (comon, unless this kid is blind, he had to know something of killing that went on).

So, this kid is now in court saying,
"It wasn't me, it was my friends."

What judge in America will be sympathetic? What jury would be just? What person would give a damn about him?

Probably not-a-one.

But this goddamn rich kid, who everyone is now poo-pooing, was part of a shady group of people (at least call them shady, if not murderers). I had a rough life, too. I didn't join gangs, shit, not even another church.

Jon Walker loves America the way O.J. loved Nicole. Love, just to please the ears of the jury.

ashi

Seeker

ashi,

You have no idea if what you are saying is right. Do JWs have any idea how culpable their leaders are? Even when they see fellow JWs dying over blood, or covering up molestation? No, they make excuses. They believe they are following the Bible. They think they are being loyal to God.

What makes you think Walker was any different? What makes you think he was able to see through the Taliban? Killings? Hey, the Qur'an says to kill, just like the Bible gives God the right to kill. It's all a matter of idealogy. And we, of all people, should understand this process.

As I say, Walker may be guilty as can be, and if so, I'll be the first to say he should be harshly punished. But nobody in this thread, nobody, knows the facts yet. This rush to judgment is sickening.

ashitaka

Seeker,

The JW philosophy is nothing near the Taliban. Same plane of existence, maybe, but not the subtle nuances like the chopping off of hands and feet (and such).

This starry-eyed boy didn't hear scratch about what was going on during his extensive travels? Not one person talked too loudly and he overheard them? Not one uncensored article, not one news report from somewhere? When I was a JW, I always heard 'rumors'.

You could say Dahmer was brainwashed by slasher movies. That Manson was brainwashed by acid. Everyone has an excuse.

He was there, with a bunch of Taliban. Even if he was not; let's say he was just smoking a butt on the corner, watching bombs drop. Sounds just about right.

Why would America want to cut this guys head off if it wasn't true? Wouldn't they LOVE to use this fella as fuel to stir up the fire against the terrorists again, for their waning 'war'? They could spin this as the "poor child who was forced to join terrorists because they were going to kill him". Yet, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, etc, have been saying that they have things in writing, verbally from Walker-their wording was careful, but I could have sworn they called it confessions.

The courts have to be judicious about things. We don't.

Why can't we have our opinions? We have no legal right to convict him, but we can think anything about him that we want.

"As I say, Walker may be guilty as can be, and if so, I'll be the first to say he should be harshly punished."

I knew that, and I wasn't referring to you when I referred to nambi-pambi liberals. But, there's no reason I've seen why we should be picking up this kid's flag. Sounds like more rhetoric on the kid's side than on the governments'.

If he's innocent, God bless him. If not, God help him.

ashi

Seeker

The JW philosophy is nothing near the Taliban.

There are similarities, though, in any closed-system of beliefs. For example, JWs don't literally chop off feet and hands, but that's because the Bible doesn't say to do that while the Qur'an does. But if the Bible did say to do it, JWs would not only do it, but would convince themselves that it was loving! They do convince themselves that God is loving, even though they believe he's about to slaughter 6 billion people.

When you are caught up in an idealogy that does not allow for independent thought, you can believe anything, and we are all evidence of this from out past lives.

Now, I happen to despise the Taliban, and have from the moment I first heard of them about five years ago. I can't imagine myself falling for their teachings. But I also can't imagine myself falling for JW teachings....now. Yet at one time I did. So I'm empathetic to the delusion that can cause a person to justify anything in the name of God's will. To the extent that Walker's actions derived from this delusion, I am empathetic, for I have been there, done that. It just didn't happen to occur during a time of conflict.

If, on the other hand, a time of war happened while I was a JW, and the draft was reinstated, I would have rejected it like a good little JW and been branded a 'traitor.' The distance between my old life and Walker's would have become that much shorter. I know better now. I suspect Walker is rapidly learning better as we speak. Regardless, he will have to face some consequencs for his actions. My objection was to the hatred expressed toward him, calling for him to be tortured and put to death. We do not yet know the extent of his culpability.

ashitaka

Agreed.

I think your first paragraph is dead on. Gave me a laugh, too, thinking about old friends telling me, "The dismemberment provision is from God, to teach us humility."

LOLOL

Well, I understand. Pissed at him still, but the cries for blood in my head are over. Still, he at least doesn't deserve to live in our country anymore. Send him back to Afganistan or Pakistan. It'll be a hard life, but not unlivable.

ashi

Seeker

ashi,

Thanks for your response. We'll see what happens at the trial, and then we'll all have a better idea.

John Walker

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