BREAKING NEWS on www.jw-media.org

by Wrong Way 126 Replies latest jw friends

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  brotherdan

  BD with your specific example, both supposed quotes about the Jews could be indeed uttered and printed as far as I know under freedom of speech.

  Actually, this is wrong. Freedom of speech only allows for personal objection. It does not allow for the encouragment of others breaking the law. For example, Charles Manson did not commit the murder of Sharon Tate. But he recommended the course of action to his followers. His freedom of speech does not allow for that.

  The WT can say something general like, "If the Bible condemns what is commanded by law, we choose to follow God rather than men." By wording it in this very specific way, they cannot get in trouble. However, when they enforce sanctions on that follow the law instead of follow their policy, this is a violation of the constitution.
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  brotherdan

  I would also like to agree with Jam's post. I'm talking about the leadership and those in charge of the output of mind control. I don't think the blame goes to individual JWs. I don't even think the blame necessarily should go to elders. I think the real cause of these horrible policies are the men at the very top...the GB.
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  Mad Sweeney

  Russia has approached this in such a way that it makes the WTS appear sympathetic to outsiders. They screwed themselves by not making it a human rights issue with the goal of protecting Russian citizens from a dangerous mind control cult. Instead, they come off as intolerant by attacking the JWs based on their vocally subversive literature, during a time when the majority of the world already views the current regime as a glorified mafia.

  They're taking the wrong tack, but maybe if they get another hearing, they'll be able to re-frame the argument.
• 

  hamsterbait

  The END has started.

  I am going back to the Kingdumb Hell PRONTINTO

  HB
• 

  skeeter1

  I've read some of the Russian court case snipits. The main reasons Russia doesn't want the Watchtower there are: 1) break families apart; 2) blood issue; and 3) negativity towards other religions.

  I really think that the Watchtower should allow blood transfusions by personal decision and get rid of the shunning for all ex-Witnesses and become a tad more tolerent of other religious teachings (i.e. make sure the argument is a refuting on grounds). If the Watchtower made these changes, they would likely be able to expand operations and be able to strongly refute that any JW is coerced into staying or coerced into refusing blood.

  Russia has over 150,000,000 people to convert. Watchtower could be doubling its size, except for the blood ban and shunning holding them back....
• 

  just n from bethel

  BD - to be clear, I detest the "we're going to live - everyone else is going to die" doctrine. But there are many evangelical religions, and I suppose muslim sects, and others that teach the same. If you ban JWs you gotta ban all those too. All these religions, JWs too of course, all they are doing doing is "saying it". Yeah - the JWs practice DFing - so do mormons and amish. Yeah it's stupid. Yeah it should be changed but as bad as shunning is - I don't ever want my family not to shun me because they think some government (man-made or imaginary in heaven) will punish them. I want them to think - to know - to believe it is wrong.

  If you and I can be convinced that it is utter BS - and we were convinced it was utter BS on our own accord - then why do you think a government needs to be the thought control police here?

  I don't think I'm smarter or wiser than any of my former JW friends - someday maybe they'll think like me, but I never want to force them to. I don't want to support a religion nor a government that forces people to think and believe a certain way. If I had a choice between supporting JW religion that uses their methods to get people to believe a certain way - or a govt that uses physical force, imprisonment, and gestapo techniques to push belief or non-belief systems- I'll choose the JW religion any day. And this is coming from me, where I recently told my family that I want nothing to do with this religion. Still I'd take it over a fascist-like corrupt government like Russia any day.
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  jam

  'just n from bethel'. how long have you been out of the org?
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  just n from bethel

  not long enough - but long enough to recognize that thought control mechanisms come from both religous regimes and fascist governments - I support neither.

  Skeeter makes some great points.
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  brotherdan

  just n from bethel said: why do you think a government needs to be the thought control police here?

  I don't. But if you were under "mind control" by a cult, how would you know it? How COULD you know it? Would it ONLY be from influence from the outside? I'm not for forcing anything. But when society is being ruined because of the actions of a select few, then yes, there should be punishment. Why don't many people steal? Isn't it because they are afraid of the consequences? Should we just let people steal and say that it is their god given right to choose? So then why should be sit back and watch lives destroyed and people developing hatred for other groups and just say that it is their right to choose.

  You brought up muslim sects. Do I think that terrorist islamics should be outlawed? Yes I do. I think there is a difference between being muslim and being a militant islamic.

  I believe in freedom of religon. UNTIL! Until it infringes on the rights of others. Until it becomes dangerous to others. Until it becomes dangerous even to their own members.
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  skeeter1

  Google, "Is Islam a Cult?" and there is a great point-by-point article on freedomfaith that discusses it by an ex-Muslim.