The fascinating mind of ANSELM (the man who proved God exists)

by Terry 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    Meet a really smart fellow named ANSELM 1043--1109 A.D.

    He was elected ABBOT in Lombardy in 1078 A.D.

    An ABBOT is the Father Superior in a monastery of monks.

    Anselm was a smart cookie! His greatest asset was his intellect which he used to bring persons of Faith into an intellectual comprehension

    of matters of belief without abandoning their rational thinking. Under his leadership the monastery became reknown as a center of learning.

    In 1093 Anselm became the Archbishop of Canterbury in England at a time when the King, William Rufus, was confiscating revenue from the Cathedral for "royal use". This placed King and Church at odds, to say the least!

    Anselm immediately got on the bad side of the king by visiting the Pope in Rome without the king's permission. Anselm was told he could not return! When William died in battle and Henry I took over the throne Anselm was allowed back.

    Henry, like his predecessor William, was keen on having more control over the Church than the church had over him and his own authority.

    Within 3 short years Anselm was in exile once more!

    While in exile, Anselm began writing rather astounding works of intellectual vigor and religious

    insight which would profoundly affect the world of faith in the Catholic religion.

    What makes Anselm interesting to us today and to me in particular this fine September morning almost a thousand years later???

    Just this, Anselm refused to abandon either his Faith or his Intellect. In the process of bringing these two polar opposites together under one roof he produced logical proof that God exists.

    Anselm lived in a time of much debate. Anselm's private motto which he adopted in the manner of the time was:

    fides quaerens intellectum :FAITH SEEKING UNDERSTANDING

    Aselm did not seek to replace faith with knowledge. Rather, for Anselm, Faith was a Volitional state of willing oneself to be of the same mind as

    God. Whereas the usual "person of faith" merely passively agreed to what things were heard and simply accepted them as true; Anselm

    was of the strong opinion this invalidated one's WILL through no investigative process and meeting of intellectual rigor of inspection with that

    acceptance.

    "Faith that merely belieevs what it ought to believe is dead!" The mind must produce works (investigative and comprehending

    examination) which validate the Faith BEFORE that believe is actively alive. So, for Anselm, "Faith without works is dead" means the unexamined

    belief is without value to God. God needs the mind of man and not merely the actions of a puppet for satisfactory worship.

    Oddly, for his time, Anselm had no use for the Supernatural (outside of nature) to explain God or Faith. Anselm in his own words:

    If anyone does not know, either because he has not heard or because he does not believe, that there is one nature, supreme among all existing things, who alone is self-sufficient in his eternal happiness, who through his omnipotent goodness grants and brings it about that all other things exist or have any sort of well-being, and a great many other things that we must believe about God or his creation, I think he could at least convince himself of most of these things by reason alone, if he is even moderately intelligent.

    Now that we understand where Anselm was coming from and where he stood on the matter of intellect and faith we can better appreciate how

    drastically outside the box his Proof of God's existence really was in the 11th century.

    Here is ANSELM's argument. See how far you can go and agree with him and aske whether or not he succeeds.

    1.In all existing things there must be a supremely good, almost as good, good and less than good among them.

    2.Thus, all things are good in some degree. In that degree their goodness is derrived from the most supremely good among them.

    Anselm continues:

    So by the principle just stated, these things must be good through some one thing. Clearly that thing is itself a great good, since it is the source of the goodness of all other things. Moreover, that thing is good through itself; after all, if all good things are good through that thing, it follows trivially that that thing, being good, is good through itself. Things that are good through another (i.e., things whose goodness derives from something other than themselves) cannot be equal to or greater than the good thing that is good through itself, and so that which is good through itself is supremely good. Anselm concludes, “Now that which is supremely good is also supremely great. There is, therefore, some one thing that is supremely good and supremely great—in other words, supreme among all existing things”

    Having created this foundation Anselm now delivers the knockout blow using reason alone:

    Anselm argues that all existing things exist through some one thing. Every existing thing, he begins, exists either through something or through nothing. But of course nothing exists through nothing, so every existing thing exists through something. There is, then, either some one thing through which all existing things exist, or there is more than one such thing.

    If there is more than one, either (i) they all exist through some one thing, or (ii) each of them exists through itself, or (iii) they exist through each other which makes no sense.

    If (ii) is true, then “there is surely some one power or nature of self-existing that they have in order to exist through themselves” ; in that case, “all things exist more truly through that one thing than through the several things that cannot exist without that one thing” .

    So (ii) collapses into (i), and there is some one thing through which all things exist. That one thing, of course, exists through itself, and so it is greater than all the other things. It is therefore “best and greatest and supreme among all existing things.

    This is called Anselm's Ontological Argument. (Immanuel Kant called it that. In Anselm's day it was simply Anselm's proof.

    God is “that than which nothing greater can be thought”; in other words, he is a being so great, so full of metaphysical oomph, that one cannot so much as conceive of a being who would be greater than God. The Psalmist, however, tells us that “The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God’ ” (Psalm 14:1; 53:1). Is it possible to convince the fool that he is wrong? It is. All we need is the characterization of God as “that than which nothing greater can be thought.” The fool does at least understand that definition. But whatever is understood exists in the understanding, just as the plan of a painting he has yet to execute already exists in the understanding of the painter. So that than which nothing greater can be thought exists in the understanding. But if it exists in the understanding, it must also exist in reality. For it is greater to exist in reality than to exist merely in the understanding. Therefore, if that than which nothing greater can be thought existed only in the understanding, it would be possible to think of something greater than it (namely, that same being existing in reality as well). It follows, then, that if that than which nothing greater can be thought existed only in the understanding, it would not be that than which nothing greater can be thought; and that, obviously, is a contradiction. So that than which nothing greater can be thought must exist in reality, not merely in the understanding.

    What do you think of Anselm? His argument? Does it succeed? If so, why? If not, why not?

  • BurnTheShips
  • Terry
    Terry

    Awww, come on---you didn't even try!

    Read it slowly. It is really a good argument.

    Try again.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I think to try to put this in terms a non-rocket scientist like myself can understand, Anselm is saying that "The degree" of goodness of all things is in comparison to the source of all goodness. That's just gibberish. A star is pretty good compared to God. A planet is not as good compared to God.

    I am pretty sure that Anselm was reincarnated into Perry who posts on this forum.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Awww, come on---you didn't even try!

    Terry, that was a great bio on Anselm. Seriously. I learned something, here.

    I never took Anselm's Ontological proof too seriously.

    By the way, that picture I posted is the proof, expressed using the symbols of modal logic as developed by mathematician Kurt Godel, of Incompleteness Theorem fame.

    Actually, I should probably post his Theorem in Bohm's thread, since it is relevant.

    BTS

  • Terry
    Terry

    Anselm tried, at least!

    His foundational argument dovetails into the Best of All Possible Worlds argument.

    Could God have created a heaven's and Earth in which man did NOT disobey and fall bringing death, corruption and futility?

    If so--why didn't He?

    If not---why not?

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    The only possibility I can come up with is that even God is bound by Logic.

    Therefore, this is the best possible world for beings endowed with free will that is logically possible.

    In other words, God is omnipotent in theory, but not in effect.

    BTS

  • unshackled
    unshackled

    Richard Dawkins in the God Delusion dumbed down the ontological argument with this playground banter:

    "Bet you I can prove God exists."
    "Bet you can't."
    "Right then, imagine the most perfect, perfect, perfect thing possible."
    "Okay, now what?"
    "Now, is that perfect, perfect, perfect thing real? Does it exist?"
    "No, it's only in my mind."
    "But if it was real it would be even more perfect, because a really really perfect thing would have to be better than a silly old imaginary thing. So I've proved that God exists."

    As philosopher Immanuel Kent pointed out, the key flaw with the ontological argument is Anselm's slippery assumption that 'existence' is more 'perfect' than non-existence. Even if we concede that existence is a property, it does not seem to be the sort of property that makes something better for having it. American philosopher Norman Malcolm explained it this way:

    "The doctrine that existence is a perfection is remarkably queer. It makes sense and is true to say that my future house will be a better one if it is insulated than if it is not insulated; but what could it mean to say that it will be a better house if it exists than if it does not? My future child will be a better man if he is honest than if he is not; but who would understand the saying that he will be a better man if he exists than if he does not? Or who understands the saying that if God exists He is more perfect than if he does not exist?"

    To myself, being no genius philosopher, it just seems to be a form of empty, circular logic. You could easily use the same argument to try prove that the almighty creator Flying Spaghetti Monster exists.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    To myself, being no genius philosopher, it just seems to be a form of empty, circular logic. You could easily use the same argument to try prove that the almighty creator Flying Spaghetti Monster exists.

    Well, in speaking of the tasty meatballs and noodley appendages, you are speaking of properties. In using "Flying Spaghetti Monster," you are assigning a name. But this does not attack the idea of a maximal thing.

    He seems unaware that this argument, though medieval in origin, comes in sophisticated modern versions that are not at all easy to refute. Shirking the intellectual hard work, Dawkins prefers to move on to parodic “proofs” that he has found on the Internet

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/22/books/review/Holt.t.html?_r=2&ref=books&oref=slogin

    William Lane Craig responds to Dawkins' criticism of the Ontological Argument (and quotes Alvin Plantinga):

    I have to confess that I had never come across this argument until I read it in The God Delusion. The reason for its obscurity isn't hard to divine: it's so wrong-headed that even detractors of the ontological argument who understand that argument would agree that this objection is no good. To see why, let's review the ontological argument.

    The version below comes from Alvin Plantinga, one of America's premier philosophers. It's formulated in terms of possible worlds semantics. For those who are unfamiliar with the terminology of possible worlds, let me explain that by "a possible world" one doesn't mean a planet or even a universe, but rather a complete description of reality, or a way reality might be. To say that God exists in some possible world is just to say that there is a possible description of reality which includes the statement "God exists" as part of that description.

    Now in his version of the argument, Plantinga conceives of God as a being which is "maximally excellent" in every possible world. Plantinga takes maximal excellence to include such properties as omniscience, omnipotence, and moral perfection. A being which has maximal excellence in every possible world would have what Plantinga calls "maximal greatness." So Plantinga argues

    1. It is possible that a maximally great being exists.
    2. If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great being exists in some possible world.
    3. If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.
    4. If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.
    5. If a maximally great being exists in the actual world, then a maximally great being exists.
    6. Therefore, a maximally great being exists.
    7. Premises (2)-(5) of this argument are relatively uncontroversial. Most philosophers would agree that if God's existence is even possible, then He must exist. The principal issue to be settled with respect to Plantinga's ontological argument is what warrant exists for thinking the key premiss "It's possible that a maximally great being exists" to be true.

      The idea of a maximally great being is intuitively a coherent idea, and so it seems plausible that such a being could exist. In order for the ontological argument to fail, the concept of a maximally great being must be incoherent, like the concept of a married bachelor. But the concept of a maximally great being doesn't seem even remotely incoherent. This provides some prima facie warrant for thinking that it is possible that a maximally great being exists.

      In his book Dawkins devotes six full pages, brimming with ridicule and invective, to the ontological argument, without raising any serious objection to this argument. (He notes in passing Immanuel Kant's objection that existence is not a perfection; but since Plantinga's argument doesn't presuppose that it is, we can leave that irrelevance aside.) He then cites the parody of the argument you mention above, which is designed to show that God does not exist because a God "who created everything while not existing" is greater than one who exists and created everything.

      Ironically, this parody, far from undermining the ontological argument, actually reinforces it! For a being who creates everything while not existing is a logical incoherence and is therefore impossible: there is no possible world which includes a non-existent being which creates the world. If the atheist is to maintain—as he must—that God's existence is impossible, the concept of God would have to be similarly incoherent. But to all appearances it's not. That supports the plausibility of premiss (1) of Plantinga's argument.

      I think you can see that Dawkins doesn't even understand the logic of the ontological argument, which moves from the logical possibility of God's existence to its actuality. A parody of the argument that moves from a logical impossibility to actuality is not parallel to the argument.

      Dawkins chortles, "I've forgotten the details, but I once piqued a gathering of theologians and philosophers by adapting the ontological argument to prove that pigs can fly. They felt the need to resort to Modal Logic to prove that I was wrong" (God Delusion, p. 84). This is just embarrassing. The ontological argument is an exercise in modal logic—the logic of the possible and the necessary. I can just imagine Dawkins making a nuisance of himself at this professional conference with his spurious parody, just as he similarly embarrassed himself at the Templeton Foundation conference in Cambridge where he describes his confronting sophisticated philosophers and theologians with his flyweight objection to the teleological argument!

      BTS

  • DT
    DT

    I would say a fatal flaw exists in Anselm's first assumption.

    1.In all existing things there must be a supremely good, almost as good, good and less than good among them.

    Since I don't accept this assumption, I have no reason to be bound by the conclusions that are based on it. If this assumption could be proven, then the rest of the argument would deserve consideration. However, if God doesn't exist, then the notion of "supremely good" seems to be meaningless, or at least very subjective. If you believe in a benevolent deity, then the idea of "supremely good" can start to make some sense. The problem is that you are basing your argument on the presupposition that God exists, thus making it circular.

    His first assumption is also too complex and not obvious enough to make a good foundation for further arguments. It would be easier for me to just assume that God exists than to accept Anselm's first assumption. I think the concept of a first cause (called God) is more intuitively obvious than the first step of Anselm's argument, even though it's not obvious enough for me to accept it.

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