Something that's been on my mind for a while and I finally put into words.

by WontLeave 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • WontLeave
    WontLeave

    Trust me, it was with great pain that I decided upon joining the JWs. I knew (or so I thought) how nutty they were. But, I checked all the churches out and aside from a few small groups (with broken links on their shoddy websites) that I would have had to move very far in order to join, they all taught the Trinity in some form (or "modalism", in the case of Pentecostals), Hellfire, the earth is only a testing ground to see where you'll spend eternity, God kills people and "calls them home", immortal soul, etc., etc., etc. The only denomination that even has the Father/Son/Holy Spirit thing right is Unitarians and they have even more issues than the JWs. How can any church be right when they claim to follow Christ, preach Christ, believe in Christ when they have no clue that he isn't God? They teach "another Jesus". (2Cor 2-4)

    My God didn't die and can't be killed by humans, but Jesus was. "For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man." (1Cor 15:21) Why they can't understand that a perfect man paid a debt he didn't owe - "the wages sin pays is death" (Rom 6:23) - for the inexcusable actions of a perfect man - life for life? Why can't they understand that eternal torture has never been part of the deal? "For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin." (Rom 6:7) I'll tell you why: If they taught those and other simple Bible truths, they'd be the primary target of Satan and become corrupted. Oh, wait; that's exactly what happened!

    I'm not going to argue atheism in this forum, as I've never seen anyone swayed one way or another on that subject. Jesus couldn't convince everyone and I'm under no illusion I can, either. Something I learned from "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is (I'm paraphrasing): If I had the same upbringing, life experiences, information, and natural inclinations as you do, I might think and feel exactly as you do. I know the vast majority of people who claim belief in the Bible are morons. They're too lazy to read books that give evidence for Evolution and read other books that unravel the science (not the simplistic JW tripe, either), so they just latch onto "A man in the sky made everything" because it's a lot easier than making an informed decision. Nobody is frustrated and angered by them more than I.

    The ignorant things said from the platform and in the ministry make me cringe. Every study I've turned over because I moved out of the area or it was a woman (can't be around them, because JWs can't be trusted not to screw everything that breathes) fell flat on its face because the person who took it over couldn't make an intelligible point. The ghetto combing and fishing for mental patients, lonely disabled people, ex-cons, lazy, stupid, broke losers is disgusting. But anybody with a brain or an education will tear the person at their door apart. When someone is constantly told "unlettered and ordinary" means that being ignorant and stupid is a good thing and that education, information, the Internet, any non-JW book are all wastes of time and probably evil -- and then dissuaded from reading the Bible instead of a constant barrage of magazines written on a 3rd-grade reading level -- well, how is that person going to sound? Like an idiot!

    Imagine you saw someone riding a bicycle outside your house. He's all wobbly and shaky, nearly running into things and totally unsure of himself. Then, you notice his bicycle has training wheels on it! Now imagine that same person walked up to your house and offered to teach you how to ride a bike. You'd be insulted! You'd probably chase him off your porch or slam the door in his face. That's JWs, in a nutshell. They have to have the Bible spoon-fed to them with a ton of commentary mixed in, like baby food. No matter how simply and perfectly a point was made by God - "Every saying of God is refined" - the "Society" has to explain it to death - "Add nothing to his words" - making grand statements when they're way over their heads - "that he may not reprove you" - and shoving their foot deeply into their mouths - "that you may not have to be proved a liar." (Pro 30:5-6)

    But this is how they condition people to rely on them for everything: They "explain" every verse of the Bible, even when the original text puts it so perfectly. It's as though they feel they're editing the Bible, because God just handed in a rough draft. But the minds of the followers become dull and get to the point where they can't read the Bible and understand anything. The membership become so reliant on the "Society" to feed them, they will swallow anything they're given. Then, the lies gradually get crazier and more grandiose. The recent Watchtower study article even went so far as to say "Jehovah has supplied an abundance of wholesome spiritual food through books, magazines, videos, and audio recordings." So, after years of hedging about being "inspired", they've come right out and claimed their dumbed-down "new and improved Bible" media is from God. Of course, this is only in the JW edition, not the one for mass consumption. You can't say that to someone who hasn't been properly brainwashed or they'll kick you out of their house.

    But, I have to keep reminding myself these things have to happen; they were prophesied. Yes, they suck, but so do war, crime, taxes, corruption, starvation, disease, poverty, and death. Plenty of people complain about those and how much has it helped? It keeps getting worse. It just builds up so much, especially when you're not allowed to notice the problems, because it'll get you labelled as an opposer of God and Jesus. I think I'll take a lesson from Habakkuk (1:3). Even though God already has a time set to take care of all this stuff, he has an open-door policy for those who are upset by it, in the mean time. Maybe instead of venting here, I should go have a long talk with my Dad.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    The Trinity, hellfire and immortality of the soul are all concepts supported by the Bible, depending on which Scriptures you wish to take literally and which you choose to claim as figurative.

    The only denomination that even has the Father/Son/Holy Spirit thing right is Unitarians

    What you should say is, "... right in your opinion..." There are many equally genuine, intelligent people that are convinced that the Bible teaches a triune nature of God.

    Hellfire in rejected by many religions.

  • Hadit
    Hadit

    I would highly recommend you to research all of the quotes from the Trinity brochure - find them in the full context and compare them to the brochure. This is not in an effort to convince you of the trinity because I myself don't know the answer to that. However, it will show you the deception of the WTS in misleading through quotes.

    I was in utter shock when i did this. Shock and rage that they lied so blatantly.

  • bez
    bez

    I have no intention of going anywhere, although there has been much effort to push me out, from elders, a circuit overseer, and even from the branch. I've just learned to bite my tongue rather than cast my pearls before swine.

    WHY?

    Though i fully agree with so many thing you say, WHY would you stay amoungst hypocrites? As JWfatcs said, you could infact be anywhere with your opinions and still be a good christian..so why stick with the witnesses who you clearly see as people who get many things wrong?

    So you stay to get YOUR point accross to them? Or not, you keep your mouth shut...whatever, i am struggling to understand your reasons for staying in a 'religion' that you clearly do not fully accept?

    I was brought up a witness and as far as i know, you DO have to accept the teachings of the 'society' and if you do not, you are not a true JEHOVAHS WITNESS.

    Advice.. continue being a christian by all means, following christ in a way you feel you can... YOU as an indivdual are NOT going to change the thinking and belief of the Governing Body or Society on a whole, so what exactly is your mission? and can you not just use your energy, love for christ and continue being a decent human being with your relationship with God and Christ in tact because you are not living your life as a hypocrite?

    As a JW, you really do have to conform CantLeave, and this is probably why they have tried their best to 'out' you!!! Can you not see this?

    You obviously have issue with the authority in the org, so why stay?? This religion is all about Authority?! Tho the bible teaches Christ is head of the congregation, the elders are put in place to exercise the christ like headship, so as a witness, you should actually go along with that?! If you are not going to do this you may as well go your merry way, and continue to be a good person.

    I understand people who feel they cannot leave because they do not wish to be shunned, i have been like this for years, but feel that finally after making a decision and not living as a hypocrite, i can be HAPPY!

    You simplyl CANNOT pick and choose which bits you want to accept from this organization!!! you have to accept all of it, and that includes the authority of the elders etc... Yes they get things wrong and the 'society' would admit this, but you still have to go along with it ALL!

    That would include not being on one of these sites surley?!

    I guess my basic point is, you either are a JW or you are not... there is really no halfway house, and this perhaps is the reason you have been made to feel like those in 'authority' want you out!!

    Be happy with your relationship with God, stop battling with something you do not fully accept as 'truth'.

    Yes they are close to 'truth' even i believe that, but they have clearly got many things wrong in the past... which has even taken people's lives! Therefore i believe it best to stick with your own belief and move on with it. Continue to love God.

    "get out of her if you do not want to share with her in her sins"

    I hope you do not take offense, i think you are obviously just still very confused and still actually searching... Just BE HAPPY!

  • bez
    bez


    *WontLeave (sorry CantLeave must be someone else)!!

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz

    In the WT 's eyes YOU ARE ALREADY AN APOSTATE.

    to think anything they have not told you to think is in their opinion apostacy.

    that you you are here, asking ''apostates'' for advice is apostacy in their eyes.

    That you have admitted you do not agree with EVERYTHING JW you are already an apostate in their eyes

    Face it, you are 'apostate' and you know it...

    it freaked me out at first too...embrace it, you cannot go back in your knowledge.

    oz

  • bez
    bez

    Nicely Said Oz!

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Welcome, WontLeave:

    Thank you for this informative, heartfelt post; it has been both an encouragement and inspiration to me.

    Even at 3:00 a.m.

    Please stay with us.

    Sincerely,

    CoCo

  • WontLeave
    WontLeave

    The reason I put the quotation marks around "apostate" is because - despite their opinion - the WBTS doesn't get to tell Jesus who is a Christian or define what constitutes an apostate. Those things are defined in the Scriptures and decided by Christ and God. I cherry-pick what I believe the same way Jesus and his followers kept the Law according to God, not according to the Pharisees. The cultish redefining of words doesn't change anything. Abraham Lincoln said "If you call the tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? 4. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg." The Pharisees tried to accuse the Christ of having it all wrong. Satan is described as "the accuser of our brothers... who accuses them day and night before our God." Being accused doesn't make one guilty.

    While Jesus lived as a Jew, he hand-picked his associates, because the majority were unfit and actually dangerous. The Pharisees hadn't changed the law, but only human enforcement of it. Jesus demonstrated we're under no compulsion to follow the rules of men, but we may have to face the wrath of those men if we choose not to. I choose to exercise my "freedom which we have in union with Christ Jesus", but many are afraid to and that is their choice. Elders don't scare me and I know they aren't the gatekeepers of Paradise. But, there is some literature that isn't badly tainted that I want access to (I won't use the cult newsletter, Watchtower) and the ministry is important to me, so I don't flaunt it as much as I used to. I just don't associate with them so they can't scrutinize me and I commit no DFing acts. I've pretty much discovered that if you can't be DFed for it, it's probably not Scripturally wrong. Let's face it; Jesus wouldn't have been allowed to carry mics.

    I keep my ministry pure and if it isn't in the Bible, I don't preach it. When my studies ask me about things they find out about the organization, I don't bury my head in the sand and blindly deny. I've actually found that this is much more effective than stonewalling and lying, but I imagine the writing committee and the 80-year-olds on the GB are too lazy or ignorant to make rational statements, too entrenched in Society worship, or too arrogant to admit to anything. They will answer for themselves and I can't speak for them. If Jesus had gone around apologizing for the Pharisees, he'd never have gotten anything done. Let's face it, to get to that level in the organization, you really have to be kissing a lot of Society butt.

    I can't even stomach what I'd have to do to be a pioneer, MS, or elder and rejected offers to "work toward" becoming one. If I put in the same time or more than pioneer requirements, what difference does it make if I get the man-made title, anyway? Who am I doing this for? Myself, God, and Jesus or to blow my trumpet in front of me? I don't even agree with having a special title for a Witness who actually gives a witness.

    People will spend 50 hours a week at work and 9 hours a month preaching, but they believe they're "putting the Kingdom first" and really try to act like they're "relying on Jehovah" for "sustenance and covering". Who spends 3 times as much time being trained to do something as actually doing it? Add up the hours sitting in chairs at meetings, special assembly days, circuit assemblies, district conventions (and don't even get me started on the long drives, motel stays, and expense) and compare it with the national average in the ministry. Jehovah's Witnesses should change their name to Watchtower's Spectators.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Elderelite - I am the one and only cantleave!!!

    Wontleave - welcome to the forum.

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