Yet another post-JW epiphany: The Absurdity of "SERIOUS SIN".

by Open mind 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    My wife & I are conscious-class faders. She still likes to read the Daily Text, just for different reasons now. Today's text mentioned "serious sins" and it hit me like a ton of bricks. The concept of "serious" or "gross" sin is ridiculous within JW theology.

    If you commit a crime that warrants the death penalty, that's serious from where I sit.

    Per the JWs, ALL sin is potentially a capital offense.

    Ergo, ALL sin is "serious".

    Ergo, calling any sin "serious" is a waste of letters since the capital-punishment nature of sin is well understood by unworthy, guilt-ridden JWs.

    Why go tell the elders about "serious" sins when a bit of unrepentant pride, greed or gluttony can keep you out of paradise just as easily?

    Just a little brain fart I had today while enjoying a guilt-free cup of coffee with my post-JW wife.

    Life is good.



  • leavingwt

    "Was there penetration?"

    "Did you enjoy it?"

    "Who initiated it?"

    The list goes on and on.

    It's a Salvation-by-Works cult.

  • brotherdan

    You are on to an interesting topic, Open Mind.

    The WT does not understand the concept of grace and justification. They really don't. Grace is the thought that no matter what we do, we are not deserving to receive anything from God. They translate the word "Grace" as "undeserved kindness" in the NWT. However, it is so much deeper than that. Grace is a gift. Even when trying our very best to be acceptable to God, our efforts CANNOT be good enough due to his righteousness. So, as you said, ALL sins are serious sins or gross sins. Yet, opposed to this is the meaning of grace. He is able to look past our sinfulness and give us the gift of everlasting life anyway.

    With grace, we have ALREADY attained life. It's not something to be earned. It's not something that we will "probably" get in the future. It is something that God gives us NOW. I find this so comforting. As a JW I could NEVER do enough. I knew that I'd be killed at armageddon, but I was determined to go down fighting. How sad is that? But now that I know that I never COULD do enough and that is is so refreshing. Holiness is not something that we try to attain to gain salvation. It's just the opposite. It is something that becomes manifest in us BECAUSE of our salvation.

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Very well said brotherdan!

    I don't share a lot of your world view, but I think your outlook on "sin" is much healthier from a psychological standpoint than the convoluted, Talmudic JW view.

    As a secular humanist, actually I do think some sins or crimes are worse than others. That's why society imposes varying degrees of consequences, at least in theory.

    But for a JW to call some sins "minor" and some sins "gross" or "serious" when they are all capital offenses seems a bit inconsistent to me.



  • brotherdan

    Very true, OM. And who decides what sin is serious and what sin is not so serious? A group of men. The bible certainly does not call fornication a gross sin whereas gluttony is a minor sin. They are generally shown to exist on the same level.

    That being said, you are right that there are some things that are worse than others (i.e murder as opposed to telling a lie). But according to the Bible, they are viewed in the same light by God.

  • miseryloveselders

    But according to the Bible, they are viewed in the same light by God.

    So does that give me the blank check to do whatever I wish, no matter how heinous it might be?

  • cyberjesus

    Well I dont believe in Sin anymore. I only believe in actions and its consequences. Whatever we do either has a consequence that might benefit or cause damage to someone. How could any of my actions cause damage to allmighty God? that is not possible.

    so even that its absurd to talk about "serious sin" JWs dont see absurd if it comes from within.

  • Terry

    I don't know which is the greater folly: sin or forgiveness of sin.

    If the highest standard of behavior possible is worth having it is because it is valid.

    Why INVALIDATE a valid value?

    A "sinner" is a non-doer of the best, the finest and the highest behavior and thinking possible.

    Forgiveness, to be connected to JUSTness, justice and perfect value would necessitate that the NON-doer become a DOer.

    What we get instead is a defamatory twist on VALUE itself by LOWERING THE STANDARD!

    Forgiveness pretends it doesn't matter now!

    What in the world would prompt such a topsy-turvy destruction of values like this?

    Nothing less than GRACE (the odious doctrine which pretends that God is willing to destroy the highest values of Justice, Righteousness and Purity just that He can associate with corrupt humanity.)

    If ever there was a man-made fiction invented out of the desperate necessity of propping up a Vengeful God it is GRACE.

    In effect, Almighty God is saying :"I know I've held you to a high standard for several thousand years by killing you off with floods, plagues, she-bears, fire and brimstone and stoning--BUT--to heck with all that! I now embrace your corrupt stinking imperfections by simply choosing to ignore them (i.e. "forgive"). You cannot EARN it--(psst psst; you have to say the magic word: JESUS!)

    See what I mean?

  • brotherdan

    Miseryloveselders, that absolutely does not give you a blank check. That is what is faulty about the JW view of salvation. They think that if we are justified ONLY by faith and not by works that this gives a person a "blank check" to do whatever they wish since they are already saved. This is not the case. A person that does whatever they desire is showing that they have NOT been saved. That is what my point was by saying that holiness is not something that we pursue so that we can be saved. It is a manifestation of our salvation. Good works are manifest because we have been justified by faith ONLY.

    How could we ever do enough to please God? We are, in effect, condemned criminals against Him. If I commit a murder and then feed the hungry, heal the sick, and preach about God's kingdom, I am still condemned because of the murder. No matter what "good works" I perform, I cannot get past that murder without punishment.

    We are in the same situation. We have been born as violators of Gods law. No matter what good things we do, we are still condemned. However, with Grace, which is a GIFT, Jesus paid for our sins (past, present, and future). If we have been given this gift of salvation then we are compelled to do good works. But the WT reverses this concept completely.

  • brotherdan

    Terry, grace does not destroy Gods justice and purity. I don't know why I am arguing this with you since you are a bitter bitter non-believer. But regardless, because of God's justice and purity we as sinfull humans could never be acceptable to Him. His justice would not allow it. Whether you believe in God or not, the Bible teaches this very clearly. It also teaches the concept of election. All those that have been saved (past, present, and future) by God were chosen before the foundation of the world.

    The problem is when people try to apply their OWN sense of justice and sense of fairness to God's justice and fairness.

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