Ready to bail. Have been for a while.

by JustKeepLiving 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • jwfacts

    Justkeepliving. Welcome. I wish you all the best for your choices. It is a shame your brother returned.

    Witnessforjesus. It is a shame you are jumping from one high control religion straight into another one. It is common though; people leaving cults can be quite vulnerable to other groups that offer the same feeling of comfort. Mormons, JWs and the other groups you recommend all have similar American 19th century roots. Why not step back for a while and clear your head before the big leap.

    There were those in Bible times that didn't believe in it, and they lost their faith, and we were warned about such who would exist in our times, those wishing to 'plan out their own future', one that will lead to a hopeless end.

    It was 2000 years ago that those Christians expected the end to be in their day and yet it has proven to be an empty promise that still has not arrived. The Bible does not warn about those that would exist in "our times ". You just want to believe the end will be your lifetime. Why not just enjoy life for what it is, rather than focusing on evil messages of Armageddon.

  • diamondiiz

    witnessofjesus: you are leaving one cult for another. It is sad to see that people don't see how they are being conned by wts. Step back and do some research of wts' history and their past and present teachings. If you don't see any problem with wts AFTER you do a thorough research then you deserve being part of a second cult you've chosen to be part of.

    You probably find people friendly and bible oriented which is all half true since they are as nice as most church goers and bible oriented they are to a limited degree as their entire understanding of the bible is based on wts dogma. Once you get baptized you will not be able to question wts or GB outloud or you may end up getting disfellowshipped and shunned by those who you think are your friends in the "truth."

    Before you decide to take the plunge, read Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonnson and Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz which are both excellent books. Since at this time you are convinced this is the truth I suggest you take a good look at old WTS publication with open mind and think deeply why you are leaving Mormonism to join this cult.

    You think book of Mormon is a lie but WTS teachings aren't??? The whole story goes something like this.

    Russell was interested in the bible, come to believe many things second advent movement was teaching and learned that Jesus second coming was invisible from Nelson Barbour and that it occurred in the fall of 1874. Because of numerous crazy calculations that Babour and him developed, he first taught that Pyramid Of Giza was stone witness for God and that it's passages lead to them understand the future prophesies found in the bible. 1878 was supposed to be the date for Jesus to began ruling from heaven and the second resurrection(?) has began to take place. Some thought they might go to eaven in 1878 and then 1881 if I remember correctly and 1914 was supposed to be end of the wicked system with establishment of peradise. Oh ya, I forgot to mention that it was 1799 which was a date for the start of the last days. A good book to read is Russell's third in the series, Thy Kingdom Come. As 1914, was approaching Russell seemed to have started tp doubt his dates or if nothing else started to water down the belief that the end was to occur in 1914 but as WW1 began he may have believed that was the end or at least the beginning of Armageddon but he died in 1916 thus no one knows how he would have acted after the war ended without any sign of Armageddon. At Rutherford took over the presidency he also became a dictator of the society and made it more closed society with crazier ideas than Russell wanted or may have imagined. Rutherford began changing policies to his own benefit, he named 1925 as the next big thing and proclaimed that date as having more proof in the bible than 1914. 1925 was the date where the ancient worthies of Hebrew 10(?) were to return just prior to the end. But the date came and went and instead of forgetting about this date, Rutherford had build a mansion called Beth-Sarin in San Diego for the princes that were to be resurrected any day then. That being 1929 if I remember correctly, while the deed was in trust with wts it was deeded to Abraham, Moses, David, etc.. and during this wait Rutherford had a pleasure of living in this dwelling. Top notch Cadillac was only good enough for Rutherford to drive in. Judge, he was not and yet didn't have a problem when others addressed him as such. As WW2 was raging he build a bomb shelter close to Beth-Sarin, which was only discovered after the property was sold, yet Armageddon was going to happen any time then but his obvious trust was in himself. During Ratherford's reign, 1799 and 1878 dates became 1914 some time in the 1920s while 1874 slowly began to fade in the late 1920s and officially became 1914 in 1943. Also they realized that the their calculation from 606BC to 1914 didn't work because there was no 0 year between BC and AD so they moved it to 607BC. When Knorr took over sometime in the 1970s they introduced Governing Body as leaders of JWs but the power was still with the president until 1976(?). 1975 was taught to be end of the world again, since late 1960s they implied that 1975 would be the end or that they may be mistaken by months not years. When people began to sell their homes the Society encouraged others to learn from these zealous witnesses as they were putting God's Kingdom first by going and preaching while some witnesses were taking on debt thinking that the end was imminent and they wouldn't have to pay back the banks. 1975 came and went and the Society never apolagized while people lost their savings or were in huge debt - the fault fell on the followers and not the leaders. Now they change the generation understanding and any change is viewed as new light which you have to accept and NOT disagree with it openly or you may end up in the kangaroo court where the elders may proclaim that you are subverting the congregation and disfellowship you - unless you repent and accept their teachings that cannot be questioned.

    Same song and dance is performed today - end is so near and wts is the only place if you want to get saved. Everyone will be destroyed if they haven't accepted the teaching of the faithful and discreet slave - GB.

    Even if you don't have a clue of their history which most witnesses don't, all you have to do is research the fall of Jerusalem which wts teaches occurred in 607BC. There is LOTS of evidents for that occurrance to have taken place in 586/7BC and not 607. Since 607BC is wrong, you should conclude that Jesus never returned in 1914 invisibly and thus the faithful and discreet slave wasn't chosen in 1918 as wts claims. Thus you can conclude that the leaders are self appointed and from there you should be able to reason on some of their teachings to be totally bogus.

    Do your own research because you owe it to yourself and anyone else you may involve into joining wts. Here are some links to the old wts publications that you can research in as any questions that you ask of your bible conductor will be answered by quoting the newer publications which many times misquote what the original intend of the quote was.

    Just because they teach some things that align with the bible doesn't make them the truth any more than Mormons being the Latter Day Saints.

    BTW, you will be dedicating your life to the organization and not to Jehovah ;)

  • diamondiiz


    didn't see your second post. Since you learned a bit of the bible student movement maybe look closer why they rejected wts and why they claim Rutherford was so bad. Do your research, it's all there for those looking.

  • cantleave

    JKL - Welcome

    Witness for Jesus - STOP THREAD HIJACKING!!! Read Captives of a Concept by Don Cameron before you get baptised - I implore you. After 42 years of serving an organisation it is one of the books I find truly refreshing, along with the aforementioned books.

  • nelly136

    Justkeepliving, good luck with your new career and life, and welcome

  • Podobear

    Justkeepliving: Please think twice about a career in the Military. "It" will become "mother" to you and you will be institutionalised very quickly. Four years in Bethel did exactly the same to me. Many of the JW's there, just would not be able to adapt to life on the outside.

    Use your talents for good purpose. You are surely not so blinkered to think that the foreign policies of any one nation are right.. (?)

    One thing the JW's did teach me in this arena was Conscientious Objection. It was their stand on worldly conflict that brought my Father and I INTO the movement. Followers of Christ were a nation unto themselves, Christian before being English (or American) or any other label slapped on them by man made boundaries.

    Please... think again.


  • St George of England
    St George of England
    Where am I now? Just graduated, moved out, and planning a career that clashes with the org (Military related).

    Good strategy planning JKL; do not be put off by posters such as witnessofjesus who tell you otherwise. All your TRUE friends will stay by you in this decision, only CONDITIONAL friends will shun you. Remember that!

    All the best for the future


  • witnessofjesus

    Yes, I was baptized at the International Convention of the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement at their July 2000 Convention in Lionsville, PA, and I had thought that I had found the truth, that I was finally dedicating my life to Jehovah God, and I was baptized, not into a religious organization, but unto Jehovah God. However, a few years later, when the local Bible students class that we attended didn't see fit to permit me to ever take the lead among them, I admit, I became upset with their unBiblical practices, such as letting sisters take the lead and act as congregation elders, which was clearly against Pastor Russell's teachings as found in the Six volume of the "SITS", the New Creation, and so I became distraught and my wife and I left and started our own class of Bible students, and then later we burned out and eventually were suckered in the Mormon religion where we remained for over a decade, my wife having been a Mormon since 1978. The LHMM can be found online at and they teach almost identical doctrines as the WTS, without the organization to go with it. They have traveling ministers they call pilgrims, just as they did in the days of CT Russell, and in fact, my wife and I had a few visit our home and give discourses to us and we enjoyed their Christian love and fellowship, and they often spoke of the WTS as having fallen away from the Truth, they still believe that the Millennium began in 1874, with Christ's invisible presence, and that we're over a 150 years into the Millennium and that this 'transition' period as they call it, could last for another 150 years, the 1,000 reign of Christ, they say doesn't mean that it will all end aburptly, but that slowly, over the years, Christ will remove all vestiges of this evil system of things through anarchy, world-war and other means. The concept of Armageddon is rarely taught in Bible Student (BS) circles, as Armageddon doesn't mean the end of the wicked, as the JWs teach, but the end of this system of things. In BS thought and teaching, Adam and Eve will be resurrected, along with the previous inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah and Tyre and Sidon and that ALL will be given the opportunity to LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT JEHOVAH, and then at the end of the 1,000 years, when Satan is let loose a short time, those who remain faithful to what they have learned and experienced during the 1,000 years will live past that last battle and into everlasting life on a paradise earth, but those who follow Satan then, will lose all hope of life and be destroyed a second time, thus literally DIE TWICE, from which there is no resurrection. Resurrection only be provided for release from Adamic death, not the second death, if they should die a second time after their first resurrection. They oppose the WTS and have a booklet on their website that 'Examines' the teachings of the JWs from the light of Scripture...but you can check it out yourself if you wish.

    Again, I want to do God's will. All I see here is negativity and a tearing down of Jehovah's Organization upon the earth, which makes me doubt whether any of you have my best interests at heart.

  • Podobear

    @witnessforjesus: I think you are treating this forum as if it is a cohesive religious mind-set in its own right. It is not. There is a common bond here, but most folks have found their own paths in life.

    I have enjoyed the freedom of expression, the right to agree and to disagree, and yet to remain open minded and retain a comaraderie with most of those I have "spoken" with.

    Your last paragraph is a rather large and broad brush stroke demonstrating this: quote..."All I see here is negativity... which makes me doubt whether any of you have my best interests at heart."

    May I remind you that if you wish to obey Jehovah's Organization upon the earth, as you have phrased it: You should not be here.

    The author of this thread - JustKeepLiving- is about to "bail" out for all his given reasons. He has found succor in the warmth of folks here who can understand his reasoning, and are offering words of encouragement, caution and food for thought. I find that rich and uplifting.

    Perhaps you could stick to the chosen theme of each thread, and follow through the discussion until your own needs are satisfied. In that way your own path will be enriched too. You will find there are many here who will be a source of encouragement to you. Others may indeed come over as bombastic... but remember this is the Internet, and you will find Anarchists here too.. just for sheer bloodymindedness!

    All the best.


  • cantleave

    Witness for Jesus - if you really are that, a witness for Jeus, why are you joining a false prohet that marginlises Jesus to the point of making him an Angel?

    CL - of the smelling BS class

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