Dearest Lady Lee and Gladiator, thank you for your responses and peace to you both!
There is no simple answer Shelby and you know that or at least you should know that.
I have to disagree, dear Diamondiiz... and peace to you! The answer is QUITE simple: forgive. Release. Have mercy. Love even your enemies. It is the implementation of the answer that some seem to have difficulty with... and that it my point. If YOU have trouble "exercising" these, how can you deride others for having the same trouble? "They"... are mad at and bitter toward the "world." And miserable as a result. "You"... are mad at and bitter toward "them." And miserable as a result. What, pray tell, is the difference... TRULY?
There is no one type of dub but they are as vastly different as people on the outside.
Yes, of course.
I was as happy on the inside as I am on the outside but mind you I didn't follow the WTS line. I didn't go in service because I didn't want to and when I didn't go to meetings I didn't feel guilty.
And you know... or at least you should know... that you are the exception, dear one.
What many have stated is that bitterness comes with leaving the cult and that is due to being duped.
I get that, and I stated that I get that...
That doesn't make anyone worse off just they need healing from the belief. Reality is more clear and maybe sad in a sense that there is no happy ever after and the delusion is gone which may require healing.
I get that, as well, and stated similar...
There are silent hatreds and misary on the inside as well as there are on the outside, the exception is that on the inside people hide these more than on the outside.
There are many kind and honest hearted people on the inside as there are on the outside
Possibly... but what I am addressing is what is coming OUT... and so must be INSIDE. So, I am not sure we're on quite the same page...
and for some believing in nonsense is not that bad
What others assume to be nonsense, let's be clear...
but some rather have the truth but than again what really is the truth other than wts is a lie?
Okay! This is something we ALL agree on... that the WTBTS is a LIE. Why, then, do we bite and snap at each other for what those not "like" us believe OUTSIDE of her? Isn't that exactly what SHE does... berate, ridicule, and angrily deride those who are not "like" her and do not believe as she does? Doesn't she exist in bitterness, denying that anyone COULD be happy for believing ANYTHING other than what she does? It seems to ME to be the same when ones who don't have a CLUE as to what I know and believe... use the same derisive speech and contexts as SHE does against those of whose lives SHE doesn't have a clue! Those who are on the inside have little or NO idea what it's like to be outside... and they believe every little tidbit of negative hype. But those one the outside who've never LIVED what I and those like me now live... do the exact same thing!
And if you say to one of those IN her, "Hey, come on OUT and let me SHOW you: no lightening bolts from the sky, your life WON'T sink into the toilet, in fact, you'll be happier, etc." what is their response? Oh, no... because we KNOW what it'll be like there because they've TOLD us. NOT because "I've been out there." Well, not for most. And those who have but whose lives are "better"... are only fooling themselves. Because the truth is they've only exchanged one kind of life where they had NO control... for another life where they have NO control.
I share what I know... openly, honestly. If ones get it, cool. If they don't, cool. No anger, no bitterness, no derision. I am FREE to believe what I wish. Should I not allow others the SAME freedom? Or should I do as they do... while trying to call it something else?
You know on the inside when a person is miserable or depressed they say it's because of the world while when the same occurs to people on the outside they say it's beacuse they don't have the troof.
They say that, yes. But I am speaking of those on the outside who, when the same occurs for them, when life "happens"... still blame it on the "troof"... or even GOD... 5, 10, 15, 20 years later! WHO of us was promised a "rose garden"... in THIS life?
Fully analyze the Matrix example. We reached a point where we could not possibly take the blue pill anymore.
I understood the pills to be offered only once, dear OTWO (peace to you!)... after one's initial "awakening"... so that if after being made conscious one chose it, one could RETURN to sleep. I did not get that it was a repeating event.
But there was a point where many did make that choice awhile back. Some took the blue pill and they are not here.
Some took the red pill and it wasn't bliss, it wasn't heavenly, it wasn't the answer to all of life's problems. Still, it was truth and after knowing truth, the vast vast vast majority of us would never go back.
That indicates that no matter how happy we thought we WERE, we knew we really were not happy. We were either miserable and fooling others or we were fooling ourselves. Something was wrong in "the matrix" of the WT-world and we may not all be able to face each day with a genuine smile and lots of laughter, but any anger or misery we have now is still better than living the lie.
Is it? Perhaps, for some, the lie is "better." At least, as far as they are concerned. Which is my POINT: if the red pill isn't really any BETTER... why ridicule those who don't want to take it??? I mean, isn't it up to THEM to choose their own misery?
I think even the bitter ones recognize that life now is more reason to rejoice than it was in the lie.
I get that, yes...
They just aren't totally ready to rejoice.
I even get that. What I DON'T get is that if is really ISN'T better out here... why should anyone WANT to join you? Yet, you ridicule them if they DON'T. And if life IS better... why let THAT be your beacon... not your... ummmm... bitterness?
And for those who are not ready to rejoice (which, IMHO, is vastly different from those who aren't ABLE, yet, for whatever reason)... especially those who do NOT believe in God... since you well know that the days of man ARE numbered... isn't spending ANY time in misery a wasted time? What if you were to wake up and find out that your LAST day is tommorrow... and you have no more time within which TO rejoice? Will you spend even your last day, your last 24 hours, your last hour... last minute... last BREATH... in anger, bitterness... and self-inflicted misery?
There are legitimate reasons for people to nurture their resentments for awhile. Some longer than others.
I agree that there are reasons... majority of which, however, I must question the legitimacy. As for duration, I believe that some... merely assimilate into "woobies," comfortable "blankets" which some wrap around them for "company." Because of their miserable lives IN the Borg... they KNOW misery. It is familiar... even comforting. Joy, though... now that's something altogether different, something NOT known, NOT familiar... foreign... alien... and so far off. BUT... that very woobie... that anger, hatred, deceit, bitterness, etc., is something THEY recognize... and as LONG as you hold onto IT... they will ALWAYS consider YOU a part of THEM... and NOT the other way around (i.e., you got out and THEY should join YOU).
I am not one to judge others anymore (stop laughing Shelby)
I am not laughing, dear one, truly... but I think you are fooling yourself... still...
but I want to mention this. Have you truly "move[d] on, at least with regard to the emotional ties" if you are here on this forum for 9 years and still asking these questions?
Moved on from the emotional ties to HER? Absolutely. No doubt about it, not one iota. That is why I use my name (I have nothing to hide and no one to hide from). Moved on from emotional ties to the people I have come to know and love BECAUSE of her? No, not at all. And may that never happen, JAH willing.
Regardless of what you will say to justify that (like helping others), it is a personal question that has to be looked at.
I am not hear to help anyone, dear OTWO. I am here because I was sent, as a servant, to the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with. To share what I hear from my Lord... and so try to work out my own salvation. If some are helped in some manner on the way, that is merely icing on the cake, an intended treat.
I also think you overstate how people deride and ridicule you or insist that you come to their way of thinking.
Oh, there may be a few like that.
Need there be more than a few?
But mostly, the people who scoff at your beliefs are not doing so to force you into some mold of misery or to get you to think like them.
Not the first, perhaps, but certainly the second. We ALL wish everyone thought like us, dear OTWO, let's be honest here...
They are just rationalists that are concerned about your well being...
I just had the weirdest thought... that perhaps you and I aren't reading the same threads... or perhaps aren't even on the same forum. What you just said is exactly my point: you... sound... just... like... them! My faith is not dependent on what OTHERS think and/or believe, dear one. It is based on and dependent upon that I think, believe... and know...
and how your statements of "faith" might not truly be helpful to people searching for the truth after "taking the red pill."
You think absolutely and completely shipwrecking their faith is MORE helpful? Not everyone is looking to find "the truth" by dispensing with God, dear one. Some are looking to FIND God... by FINDING... the truth. And that is all that I offer: the Truth.
I am certain from the JWN threads that you might view as ridicule that nobody is here to dispense to you, "anger, bitterness, ridiculing, negativity, ....., deriding, mean-spiritedness, sometimes deceit." (I took out "chiding" because I suppose some of what you get could be called that, but chiding is "To scold mildly so as to correct or improve." It is not a tearing down.)
I can see how the statement I made referencing myself could lead you to believe I was concerned with myself. I was not and am not. I am saying what dear tec summarized much more concisely and eloquently than I ever could have: how do you believe you have anything DIFFERENT to offer with regard to what you do/don't believe... regardless of whether it is "christian", "Atheist," "Agnostic," "Gnostic"... or what have you... if you continue to display the same things THEY do? Whether is toward me, them, or anyone???
That's all I'm asking... and other than dear tec and a couple others, I don't think the question has been answered by those to whom it was directed. I wonder if it can be.
I bid you both peace.
A slave of Christ,