by flipper 68 Replies latest jw friends
I served for 17 years.
I've been one of those 'appointing' others.
Trust me when I tell you that you just need 10 hours a month.
I've served with many that were just alcoholics. Others that liked porn.
I would never allow my child to sit with an elder. Never.
I spend, maybe, an hour a month just keep it honest in front of my "service group". Usually I get up and take the group out, show up in territory, do a door maybe two, and roll the hell out fast.
OMG! You must have had a double in each and every Hall I ever belonged to...the proverbial book study c.o. that showed up to take the group and then headed off on his own to do some 'calls'. While we poor schlepps were out slogging through the territory in 90F heat, or -20C bitter cold, the conductor always had 'calls' to do...but of course, we had to report back on how much of the territory we covered... What absolute BS
No amount of meetings, articles, schools or rah-rah parts will make up for the glaring situation. It is almost a joke when you visit some congs - elders / ms not there, very late, unorganized, haughty, not prepared or even studied for the meetings.
Does this ever hit home as well! Rah-rah parts! (LOL) We had the other kind, those that put the sleeper-hold on you by their dry question and answer parts - straight out of the KM...yawn - there were some of the other elders who would literally be falling asleep while their counterparts would drone on from the platform, doing the 45 degree lean into the aisle before they would jerk back into upright sitting position! Oh, the memories....
Okay - this is slightly off the point, but it just happened in the last few days. My faithful, almost 80 year old father (baptized in the late 30's) served as an elder until about ten years ago when all five of his children went apostate. He was removed ( I beleive he was releived). Last week they reappointed him an elder. He shakes from the stroke, he has had two hip replacements and can barely limp along. His 96 year mother-in-law is his constant care in his home. He puts in as much service time as he can and now they want him giving more talks, doing more service, sitting in on committee meetings etc. What the hell? Can't they leave the poor man to have a little peace in the little time he has left? I am sure this will speed up that not far off trip to the grave.
@mjnm.... are we jealous? You have the same options as me to "do calls"... I dont lie though. I just leave. Again, as an elder no one questions me (except my wife).... ultimately this org has as much control as we let it. I let it have just enough that I wont leave just yet... everything else is mine.
(magwich if that is you on your avatar you are SMOKIN!)
Been working a lot the last few days. Sorry for the delayed response here. Thanks for all your comments !
MOSHE- Yes, I agree with you. Witnesses always make the claim to " Wait on Jehovah " for him to expose some elder in high positions doing wrong conduct. That Jehovah will allegedly " clean out the congregation " of wicked elders. NOT. Doesn't happen that much. I've seen guys like you say get away with things for YEARS and they keep serving as elders counseling others how to live their lives while fooling around on their wives, watching porn, doing criminally insane things like murder, extortion, you name it. Holy spirit is NOT at work in JW congregations.
ELDERELITE- I'm glad to hear you are gradually fading and trying to step down as an elder. Good for you. I'm sure it's a hell of a challenge with a " fanatic " JW wife ( Was married for 19 yrs.to one myself ! LOL ! ) however if you stick to your plan and your guns it will all work out for you one way or the other. Don't know if you have minor children living at home still- but that can be a challenge as well , especially if wifey wants to train them up to be ubber J-dubs. Hang in there friend.
LOZHASLEFT- I know how you feel feeling guilt over training your children in the witnesses. I have felt that also at times. But I realize that people change. Life can change at the drop of a dime my friend. Our kids who are witnesses may open up their eyes if they get mistreated unjustly by the JW cult. Or elders in the cult. Thus we can NEVER give up hope ! Hang in there.
OPEN MIND- Good points you make. Yeah, if Daddy elder is a strong, assertive, infuential elder in his locale- his son will very likely get an appointment to M.S. r elder. But if daddy elder is a weak or non-assertive personality - his son could get lost in the woodwork. That's why the politics of how people got appointed TOTALLY was unappealing to me. I never played the game. Couldn't keep doing it.
METATRON- Good point you bring up that usually the more self-righteous a person would seem in the congregation- the harder they would fall and many times had some hidden secret sins going on in some manner. If we really knew EVERYTHING going on in a surly way inside elders and others homes - we'd all vomit I'm sure.
ZAPPER_1- Exactly. I never understood how getting field service time and carrying microphones indicated how decent or good a person is either ! It didn't appear to be showing the fruitages of the spirit to me !
PITCHESS-COGEN- Well, don't feel TOO bad the elders didn't reach out to train you as a ministerial servant. You weren't missing anything- believe me by not serving as one. Too much stress.
SEENITALL- Very true what you say. The quality of men serving as elders has gone into the $hitter years ago. Nobody is devoted that seriously anymore. That is interesting about what you see in lack of preperation, not studying their WT's for the study, and non-attendance at meetings. Cool. very cool. Perhaps this organization will just crumble from within as time goes on. I haven't been to meetings in 7 years- but I remember all the crazy counsel I received from half cocked elders winging it giving me their personal opions instead of Bible counsel- one of the reasons I initially stopped attending meetings.
QILLSKY- I'm sure Seenitall will choose the right thing for his wife and kids.
LIFE IS TOO SHORT- Very true what you say. The suck ups and brown nosers were the ones who always got the assembly parts or special appointments. You mentioned that your husband didn't suck up like others- one reason he's probably not an elder now- he wouldn't play that game and they unjustly abused him, misused him to cater to their own laziness- then kicked him off from being an elder. Pretty sad. I feel for your husband. This organization just chews people up- then spits them out. Like a well oiled machine.
JAM- Very true- if a person moves to a remote country or rural area even in the United States- they'll appoint virtually anybody without available brothers. I'm glad you escaped the drudgery of the cult.
DARINGHART 13- Wow. So you saw a lot in your 17 years as an elder. Incredible. I knew of elders who would conduct the WT study with a good buzz on from drinking alcohol heavily before the meeting. But like you say- it's a good old boys club and other elders generally just turn their eyes away from these infractions committed by fellow elders.
MEETING JUNKIE NO MORE- LOL ! Yeah, I knew plenty of elders who would go and send out publishers in the territory but they'd go on break somewhere at Carls Jr. or some hidden Mexcan restaurant ! I mean, the nerve ! They expected the peons to work in the heat- but they themselves to take the credit for work accomplished in the field ! Yeah, and I saw lots of boring talks also. Saw publishers AND elders sleeping at meetings ! Hell ! I slept at meetings too ! I worked nights and I'd just pass out in my chair ! Dropping my books on the floor !
MAGWITCH- I really identify with how your older elder father is being treated. It's disgusting how they expect 80 to 90 yr.old elders to tow the line with committee meetings, field service, book study's etc. My elder dad is 85 and he FINALLY just a year ago stopped conducting a book study and he no longer gives public talks for 45 minutes standing there. This organization is REALLY abusive to older ones. I hope perhaps your dad might let you assist him with the aged mother in law. You can bet the congregation doesn't help.
ELDERELITE- You made a statement that " as an elder no one questions " you. Very true. That rarely happened inside the organization- thus ANOTHER reason I left. I couldn't stomach one set of rules and xpectations on publishers having to answer to elders for everything- yet elders walking around like " Kings of the castle " not answering to ANYONE ! I hope you get out of the witnesses soon so you can get peace of mind
Wanted to bump this recent thread up if any wanted to comment or missed it
in the KH i attended there were father/son combos
as well as a FIL/SIL combo, with grandsons being
MSs right out of high school... very inbred, with a few
that seemed to be revolving door types; appointed
and deleted every 5 years or so
one guy was an outsider, he came from MTS,
was made the PO... have no idea if it carried
over as CoBoE....
my fave was an unmarried virgin who
counseled married people with real
marital issues... stellar advice was to
"read the family happiness book"
CHICKPEA- Yes indeed, I saw a lot of father/son, father in law/son in law appointments also. Yeah, that is pretty strange that they appoint these young men in their mid 20's who are virgins to be giving marriage counsel to couples . I man- What else could a guy like that do but point them to the " Family Happiness " book ? LOL ! He certainly couldn't give counsel based on experience ! LOL ! That's why I always thought they should wait until men were late 30's or in their 40's to be elders
There should be rules to where you can't be an elder or ministerial servant; and have close family that are the same rank in the same congregations.It can create favoritism and a conflect of insterest.
PITCHESS Co-GEN- I agree with you. WT society should have rules which prohibit close family from having the same rank as elders in the same congregation. It allows too much coercion and chance for monopolizing of power and control of JW members in those congregations. But of course, we both know the WT society would never do something which makes sense or is fair in a just way. Just like our government- very similar
