Sooo! I would say that we are all basically agreed. Appointed is a bullshit word for this process and I don't even have a replacement word.
As a Witness - What did you Notice in How Elders Got Appointed ?
that describes it perfectly, s'all bollox.
Wow ! Did this thread take off or what ? Worked last night- finally have time to comment. Thanks for the replies.
OTWO- Yeah, it was amazing how " being regular " at meetings and field service as a family was valued more than being kind and loving to others. Even though you were appointed rather young as an elder- at least you started seeing through the politics and BS and treated people in a kindly manner. I think you would have been one of those elders I could easily relate to. I'm glad you got out though. A lot less stress.
5th GENERATION- Yes indeed. A person had to be a great a$$ kisser and getting 20 hours a month certainly upped the chances of getting appointed.
QUILLSKY- Exactly. Either have a JW wife on happy pills or at least she'd have to be a Stepford wife for the man to get appointed elder. LOL !
SIMON MORLEY- Very true. A green handshake ALWAYS worked in getting men appointed. Wife & kids prominent in service helping old people. And yes it is best to stay off the radar by getting under the national average of hours.
DESIGNS- Yep. 10 hours and if the elders and C.O. & D.O. liked you or not. Exactly.
STILLAJWEXELDER- Indeed, if a person wanted an appointment he had to learn the art of brownosing. I could never do it. Not in my nature.
BOOBY- So it sounds like they appointed you as a young elder. Being in a rural area probably there were not many men to choose from I imagine. But in having those meetings it must have been a weird feeling discussing each " brother " and his qualifications.
MAN IN BLACK- Very true. " Not what you know, but who you know. " I saw this time and again while I was a witness. Some egghead like the ones you mentioned would get appointed and still act like a jacka$$ like they did BEFORE appointment. You are right- holy spirit had NOTHING to do with the appointments.
144001- Yep- Poop on the noses got you appointed as an elder for sure !
JACKCAR- I can only imagine how absurd these appointments of elders look to a non-witness. It is insanity how they pick elders, isn't it ?
MISGUIDED- That is awful that your father in law had a baby with his daughter , yet still served as an elder ! Gross ! I've heard stories like that one before. Sure shows holy spirit has NOTHING to do with appointments !
HADIT- Yes, I noticed the same thing you did. Many chauvanistic men being appointed who didn' treat wives and children right. That elder who picked his teeth ? ICK ! Gives me the shivers ! He said " short & curlies " to a sister ? What a pig. I agree that WAY too much freedom is given these elders and the congregation members are WAY too trusting of them. Which as you stated is an extremely dangerous thing knowing the background of some of these weirdos.
CANTLEAVE- That's good that you and elders you knew looked at the WHOLE aspect of a guys life before he was appointed an elder. That being said like you mentioned someone could just be deceving the elders and putting on a front too at the kingdom hall- yet away from the kingdom hall he might be an emotional terorist to his family. Yeah I know what you mean about being criticized for hair styles back in the day. I was criticized for wearing a moustache in the1980's early 90's ! Crazy how controlling they were.
DOZY- Good points you bring up. Yes, field service activity were looked at and aving a so-called " cooperative " attitude. Like the example you showed- if a brother spoke up and corrected an elder, or just voiced an opinion sometimes - it would be enough for him to not get recommended. Holy spirit has nothing to do with it for sure.
NOWANDTHEN- You are right- it is by playing the " theocratic game " that men are able to get appointed as elders. Being stern and having a holier than thou attitude helped also. Just performing the right " functions ".
BONNIE_CLYDE- It sounds like Clyde could see through the masquerade that was going on determining how elders were picked. Good for him that he turned down that position as elder. I bet it caused him less stress for sure !
BLONDIE- I saw what you are saying go on aLL the time. If a brother was a close friend to an elder- he'd easily get appointed. Same with family members. Pretty unjust. Or yeah, guys taking off time from work to rub shoulders with the circuit overseers. Or taking the c.O. out to lunch or golfing might enhance someone's chance to be an elder as well ! Saw that too .
MATTIEU- It's definitely a boys club mentality. It was here in the States too ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
BOOBY- Yes, I saw that as well- that men would feel " obligated " to reach out for elder- and couldn't say No ! I was NOT one of those men. I saw too many politics being played so I was content to step down from being a MS after 6 years- before they tried " guilting " me into becoming an elder ! LOL ! And yes- Eldership & Spirituality were and are definitely not bedfellows.
NELLY 136- Nepotism. Exactly.
KEYSER SOZE- Very true. I saw this as well that elders had their " pets " or guys who were their right hand men- joined at the hip- so to speak. And you are right- it didn't matter if the guy was " spiritual " or not- if the elders liked him- he was in !
QUIRKY- You are right exactly. It was who you knew and how " spiritual " a person could try to act. And some were pretty darn good at " acting spiritual " in spite of not being really spiritual in the least !
OUTLAW- Good point you bring up. If daddy senior waned junior to get appointed- it would happen ! LOL 1 My dad was City Overseer for years and my older brother got appointed very young as an elder- 24 yrs.old ! I was appointed a Ministerial Servant at age 20 and continued until 26 yrs.old and stepped down after I started having children. I saw too many politics and didn't want to go down the " elder road". This pissed my then JW wife off as she wanted me to be an elder. But I didn't want to. I felt pressured to liveup to the alleged " Elder legacy " my dad and older brother left me. But I didn't give in. As Sinatra sang- " I did it MY way. " LOL !
MEETING JUNKIE NO MORE- I agree. I saw that it was all politics when still in my 20's. Thus one reason among several reasons I never reached out for elder positions. It was like a good old boys club and the hassles and contentions among egotistical elders would become like some goddamned soap operas sometimes - you know " As the Stomach Turns " ! There was so much nepotism with elders being inflated with their own egos being stroked constantly from publishers who envied the power and control that elders had ! They wanted to rule as well ! It was really a circus. Glad I've been away from it for almost 7 years now.
NELLY 136- Exactly. It was pretty easy to see a potential son in law necome appointed as a Ministerial Servant really quick if his father in law was already an elder. I saw this all the time go on where I lived
Ok new to this site. You guys stories are pretty true with people get appointed. A friend of mine was appoined M.S and now Elder because an Elder took him under his wing,and gave him a push. He changed his life, but still I never had that opportunity.
All I can do is echo what has already been said. In my hall it is very much a political deal. Until a few months ago when i "woke Up" it bothered me deeply. So many names come up of brothers who just plain don't qualify, Scripturally, but have time in service and are friendly with other elders. I myself had to wait for YEARS because the PO and I don't get along. I finally cried to the CO who told me what he had to go through to make it happen. So I guess in my case I just had to brown nose the CO to override the PO. now I wish I hadn't wasted my time. That said service time is the first thing my body looks at. Not because we care, as a body we truly do not, but so many recommendations have been shoot down by the branch and the CO over it that we just know to check first thing. If his time ain't right, we don't bother. I will confess here in the anonymity of the world wide web that I have been lying about my service time for YEARS. who has the energy to spend 15-20 hours a month to waste in service and still get things done? I started small and when I began to see that no one questioned it, I just kept going and going. Now I spend, maybe, an hour a month just keep it honest in front of my "service group". Usually I get up and take the group out, show up in territory, do a door maybe two, and roll the hell out fast. At the end of the month I make up a number that feels right. Since only elders check on elders and none wants to rock the boat and be put under scrutiny themselves I have never had an issue in the least. How's that for appointed by Holy Spirit.
So many years I stressed about why seemingly unsuitable men (in scriptural terms) were appointed - in the end I had to face the fact that it was a corrupt system...in particular one bachelor bro with a family full of JWs who had a heart of stone was appointed and put his 'groups' through hell...another guy who used to actually physically 'kick' his kids in the book study group and swear at them on FS is now a bigshot elder...and to think I used to tell my kids to trust these men implicitly....
PITCHESS CO-GEN- Welcome to the board ! Nice to hear from you ! You are correct. A lot of times elders DID take Ministerial Servants under their wings and groom them for elders positions. I saw that too in my 44 years in the witnesses. Nice to have you here.
ELDERITE- Good points you make. I went through being on the bad side of certain elders for years as I would voice my opinions about something- and it would cause me to be overlooked for appointments. But I didn't care- I'm not a fake person, I am what I am - people either like me or they don't and I won't lose any sleep over it. It sounds like you reached out and became an elder- yet deep within you are not happy that you even bothered to make the choice to reach out. Are you still an elder ? Have you thought of just scaling back and becoming a publisher? It might help you to fade from the witnesses easier - instead of people hassling you for dropping off immediately as an elder. Just a thought.
LOZHASLEFT- An elder used to kick his kids in the book study and cuss at them in field service ? And I knew plenty of elders too like the single one you mentioned. But you are right- it was and IS a corrupt system in how they pick out and choose elders. I'm glad we escaped, aren't you ? Peace out, Mr. Flipper
You could be appointed as an elder and, buy lottery tickets, read pornography, not pay your bills, steal from your emplyers, cheat on your wife, molest a child, kick your dog and cat,etc- yes, you could do all of those things and still be appointed as an elder, as long as you kept it between you and Jehoobah and not tell anyone in the KH about your sorid private life and you just left your appointment up the the Holy Spirit to whisper to the CO, " uh, no not this brother".
I shocked. You didn't take this as an oportunity to take a shot at me... I'm almost disapointed
@flipper, hell yes. I am working like a mad man to step down, without drawing too much attention. I have a plan that is moving very smoothly ahead. i have already turned down all parts on assemblies. My wife is going to stop pioneering in sep and I am going to step down around the first of the year for "family" reasons. (my wife is still a major zealot though so I am working on her in the mean time) The fade will begin in earnest from there.