LOL @ PSac.
Terry, I'll get to you in just a minute.
(a response; not what Psac said ;) )
Tammy
PROVENANCE , EUCLID and the test of the BIBLE itself
by Terry 32 Replies latest jw friends
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PSacramento
Where do you read that Christ is God's word? In the bible!
Indeed, yet reading it and believing it are not the same things.
The bible my help us by leading, to a point, the rest is truly up to Us.
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Terry
Where do you read that Christ is God's word? In the bible!
Indeed, yet reading it and believing it are not the same things.
The bible my help us by leading, to a point, the rest is truly up to Us.
Reading a faulty roadmap may get you somewhere too. Is that divine guidance or just dumb luck?
Is there a difference?
If not--why bother?
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tec
Where do you read that Christ is God's word? In the bible! You say the bible "is not infallible, inerrant.." Are you willing to apply that to the tidbit you gleaned from it? To wit: CHRIST IS GOD'S WORD. See how that falls to pieces so easily? You can't have it both ways. Sorry.
I don't think I know how to explain this properly. Mostly because I don't know how people qualify historical writings as accurate - albeit not infallible. I think you have to take it as a whole to be able to grasp what is truth or not. One person did not write the bible. Many people reported what they saw or heard or experienced, from whatever source. I take those reports/documents/scriptures and reconcile them with one another. Together, they point me toward Christ.
I find only truth in the things Jesus was purported to teach, by word or example. So I trust those teachings and I trust Him. (To be honest, I never thought about historical accuracy or reconciling anything before coming here; I only heard these truths and trusted Jesus because of them) And if someone made this Jesus character up to relay these truths, well then, they might be pretty wise - but how can someone who speaks such truth, turn around and so easily create a lie? Or base those truths on a lie?
Just to be clear, I think I (or others) would have heard the same thing without the written word - through word of mouth or Holy Spirit.
Tammy
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Terry
Had the Romans not destroyed Jersalem the sacrificial system would have continued to provide figurate forgiveness for sinners.
If the writings about Jesus took advantage of the sudden loss of that system it is fairly easy to see why desperate Jews might jump
at the chance for an easier provision!
The (said with a straight face) Governing Body in Jersalem seems to have been taken by surprise that an outsider like Paul was teaching an entirely different system. Didn't they have access to the Holy Spirit?
Just to be clear, I think I (or others) would have heard the same thing without the written word - through word of mouth or Holy Spirit.
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PSacramento
The (said with a straight face) Governing Body in Jersalem seems to have been taken by surprise that an outsider like Paul was teaching an entirely different system. Didn't they have access to the Holy Spirit?
The gospel was the same, WHO it was directed to is what the issue was, that and HOW Paul preached the Gospel.
Paul was very much the type, like he admits, that would be " a gentile for the gentile and a hebrew for the hebrew", he directed his views and arguments to the auidence in question.
There was also the question of if Paul was "legit" and not just doing the "ninja thinkg" and working them from the inside, issues that were cleare dup after they "all" met face-to-face.
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Terry
I've been reading a lot of Eusebius lately. The man (Eusebius) is a lackey and a sychophant, however, he is the only official source of early Christian history the church recognizes.
At any rate....it is apparent from Eusebius that there were so many varied and contradictory opinions of what a christian SHOULD believe (and the corollary: what they should NOT ) it was catch as catch can until Constantine used the might of Rome to enforce an Orthodoxy on the rest.
My hypothesis is that it wasn't the persecution of anti-christians which destroyed the original autograph copies of Gospels; it was Constantine's crackdown on those who would not accept HIS official orthodoxy!!
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chrisjoel
What if we arent giving Satan enough credit. What if this is how Satan, as the god of this world, has managed to manipulate GODs plans to the point where he has thrown belief ITSELF into question.....by manipulating the Bibles own preservation. By destroying its integrity. By ensuring that works such as Euclid attained the test of time but Gods word , the very thing that SHOULD be preserved is attributed no provenance. Evidence of provenance is Suspiciously missing. WHereas in art, archeology ect.. it is established.
...thats my best excuse. Its imaginitive isnt it?
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Mall Cop
Tell me please, are other belief systems and cultures wrong when it comes to their 'Holy Writngs" from their Gods?
Why only the Bible? Why not all religious holy writing from all cultures and all belief systems.
Me thinks, Man has brought about all this "BALONEY."
Go ahead and read Carl Sagen's The Demon Haunted World Science as a Candle in The Dark. Chapter 12 The Fine Art of Baloney Detection. Then give me an answer to the test of all of these writings.
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Terry
Tell me please, are other belief systems and cultures wrong when it comes to their 'Holy Writngs" from their Gods?
Why only the Bible? Why not all religious holy writing from all cultures and all belief systems.
I think the history/evolution of the Book of Moormon is a post-echo of what happened with the Bible.
Suspiciously contrived "divine" inspiration followed by conflict/persecution and the rise of a subculture of devout and pious True Believers.
If you compare the actual earliest copies of the Book of Moormon with the present day version it is alarming and amazing to see how funky the misspellings, awful grammar and King James plagarisms have been.....um....redacted and corrected into non-existence.
The result is a pristine version laundered of proof that human imagination is behind it all.
The Hadiths of the Koran give an interesting glimpse into how extraneous writings can take on remarkable affinity with divinie inspiration.
They are the rough equivalent of the Jesus sayings compiled by Mark and others as Q into the Gospels; only in reverse!