John of Patmos NOT John of the Gospels

by PSacramento 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  PSacramento

  As we know, John and his brother James, along with Peter, were the closest to Jesus.

  John, along with James and Peter were the sole witnesses to Jesus's transfiguration on the mountain.

  It may have been this John that dictated the Gospel of John and some scholars believe that there was John the Apostle, John the elder and John of Patmos, that all were different John's.

  Well, lets not go there right now, but in regards to John of Patmos being John the apostle:

  John the aspostle saw Jesus's transfiguration:

  The Transfiguration

  (Mt 17:1–8; Lk 9:28–36; 2 Pet 1:16–18)

  2 Six days later, Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain apart, by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, 3 and his clothes became dazzling white, such as no one l on earth could bleach them. 4 And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses, who were talking with Jesus. 5 Then Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; let us make three dwellings, m one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 6 He did not know what to say, for they were terrified. 7 Then a cloud overshadowed them, and from the cloud there came a voice, “This is my Son, the Beloved; n listen to him!” 8 Suddenly when they looked around, they saw no one with them any more, but only Jesus.

  And yet, John of Patmos, when he saw Jesus like that, needed Jesus to explain to him who he was:

  13 and in the midst of the lampstands I saw one like the Son of Man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash across his chest. 14 His head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, 15 his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and from his mouth came a sharp, two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining with full force. 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he placed his right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one. I was dead, and see, I am alive forever and ever; and I have the keys of Death and of Hades.
• 

  sir82

  As I recall, there are many other reasons for believing they are not the same, the primary one being that the 2 writers had a clearly different level of mastery of the Greek language each book was written in.
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  JWoods

  There are also many reasons to simply say that we do not know who wrote either account, or if their name was actually "John" in either case.

  The works are still valuable religious artifacts from a murky time in the history of the christian religion.
• 

  Terry

  Sort of like Cleopatra. There were 7.

  Or Ptolemy. There were 14.

  How many Yeshuas? Countless.

  The name John is pretty familiar. In Russia we have IVAN.

  In Western Europe: IAN.

  There is also JAN, ,Yan, Juan and ....well, you get the idea.
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  wobble

  Terry, are you saying that Don Juan (the skirt-chaser) is really John the Apostle ?
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  PSacramento

  Yes, writing styles was the first big one, BUT IF John the apostle was NOT the writer of GOJ but merely the dictator, then we don't know his writing style, do we?

  ( 1John aside of course).

  I think that Jw's believe John of Patmos to be the apsotle, yes?
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  JWoods

  I think that Jw's believe John of Patmos to be the apsotle, yes?

  Yes - same John wrote all the books in the NT named John + the revelation, according to the watchtower.

  They also think Matthew was the first gospel written, IIRC - where most scholars now seem to think it was Mark.
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  PSacramento

  One of the elders I did a study with years back mentioned that and I replied about the styling difference and his response was what that John wrote diferent because it was a "revelation" and he wrote the words he heard.

  That still doesn't change how he starts and ends his letter, so unlike the GOJ and 1John ( there is some debate as to 2 and 3 John) or that he didn't recognize Jesus in the way he looked transfigured as we would have if he was John Zebedee ( sp?).
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  wobble

  The difference in style and language from the Gospel of John to the "Revelation" make it as certain as scholars can be that they were not one and the same person.

  The John of "Revelation" is not a person acquainted with Classical Greek language or philosophy, as the John of the Gospel is.

  I lean toward thinking that there were three Johns, and that "Revelation" should not have been included in the Cannon, it has caused so much trouble.
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  JWoods

  I lean toward thinking that there were three Johns, and that "Revelation" should not have been included in the Cannon, it has caused so much trouble.

  Indeed - and seemingly without any religiously redeeming value. Of course, it has provided various evocative images for writers of horror and science fiction.